H.E. Double Hockey Sticks

"If you keep man dumb,you can keep him under your thumb" If you can manipulate the populace with fear, you got it made. That where the appearance of cult comes in play. So you might be wonder what will happen if give the man knowledge? He will become something like us. You could not control him; he will be threat to whomever. So if you just get rid of him, no one would question your authority. I am 18 and I sound 3 times my age.

Isn't there some part of you that finds eternal punishment cruel or excessive?

Speaking as a Christian, yes. And I strongly suspect so does God. ;-)

Anyone familiar with the Mr. Deity series? Funny stuff. Someone on PZ's site posted the link and I spent almost an hour watching all ten episodes. Tour de Hell is episode 7. You can see the rest at here.

The concept of Hell is an outrage to any decent person, but has always been the most orthodox of theology in the Christian church. Here are some quote from a web page on the subject:

• "In order that nothing may be wanting to the happiness of the blessed in Heaven, a perfect view is granted them of the tortures of the damned." - St. Thomas Aquinas
• "The sight of hell's torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever." - Popular eighteenth-century Puritan clergyman Jonathan Edwards. He also proclaimed: "Can the believing husband in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving wife in Hell? Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell? Can the loving wife in Heaven be happy with her unbelieving husband in Hell? I tell you, yea! Such will be their sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish their bliss."
• "I defy any of my co-religionists to tell me they do not laugh at the idea of Dawkins burning in hell." - Ann Coulter

And from this page:

One indication of what the Roman Catholic Church does not teach is seen in a comment by Professor Luigi Lombardi Vallauri. He was professor of philosophy of law at the Catholic University at Milan, and was regarded as one of the church's more original theologians. He stated: "Even God does not come out well from his creation [Hell]. He appears as a father who locks up his miscreant sons in a horrible hovel and throws away the key, forever! Hell decrees the total failure of the pedagogy of God...[Hell is a] colossal injustice, contrary to all the principles of modern law and...the Italian constitution." The Vatican ordered him fired.

- No More Mr. Nice Guy!

Christians are stereotyped as being hypocrites for many reasons. You profess love, kindness and every good thing but then, lurking in the background, is a place of indescribable horror.

Sounds just like the politics of fear by Bush and the GOP. If you vote Democrat, you will die. What is amazing, is that it actually works on some people. If you don't believe in God, you will burn for eternity. I guess that would make Jesus the original fearmonger. Funny how some things never change.

But if you have not seen this you should. They set the irreverance bar pretty high.

Something worth pointing out is the fact that your moral sense is independent of, and even contrary to, the Bible.

This is yet another answer to the Christian assertion that goodness comes from their religion. In this instance, as in so many others, your morality is greater and more compassionate than anything found in their holy book, and so cannot possibly be derived from it.

When I was in college and was a half-hearted lutheran christian, I went to a Baptist Student Union spring vacation thing. I didn't realize it, but I was the "project". I tend to be obtuse about somethings, so probably a lot of their evangelizing was silently ignored by me without trying. :-)

Anyway, the one discussion/argument I had with the leader (an adult) was about hell. I asked about people who never heard of it. Or people who were introduced to christianity via violence, etc.? Of course, at the time. He didn't have much of an answer. "They go to hell, it's what the bible says."

Of course, at the time I didn't know as much about the history of religion and the bible to ask things like, "which bible? That book you hold is a translation and not a very good one." "Why do you believe it to be holy?" "What about the other books that weren't included?" etc.

Regarding your question, I suspect that most christians won't even notice you have a point; forget about answering it.

Ciao!

That was one of my first revelations on my path away from the church. I didn't like the christian God on a moral level and eventually couldn't bring myself to even want to worship.

Amen, brother! The idea that your friends/family/coworkers/neighbors think that whatever you believe or don't (if it not what they believe) you will end up in some horrible burning place that no one has been able to prove... So it's below us or at the core of the Earth? Hmmmm.

Here's something you might find interesting, Brent. Some minister who went through the same 'crisis' I went through regarding your question, and the consequences he reaped for believing what he did. (Mine wasnt as dramatic, though.)