Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Obama is Religious, Therefore Atheists Are Probably Wrong
Law professor Paul Campos op-eds in the Rocky Mountain News on the subject of the very real dilemma for progressive atheists: reconciling support for Barack Obama's politics with his overt religiousness.
Campos has apparently come across some folks bandying about the possible insincerity of Obama's religious professions, and it seems to be bothering Campos:
Since it's obviously absurd to claim that people like Obama lack the necessary intelligence to grasp these truths that are so self-evident to the fundamentalist atheist, our fundamentalist friend is left with a couple of options.
First, he can claim that the otherwise intelligent person has been, as it were, brainwashed by his upbringing, his education, his psychological quirks (this latter explanation is especially popular among those who see religious belief as a form of unconscious wish-fulfillment) or some other ideological factor that remains impervious to what fundamentalist atheists likes to call "reason."
[. . .]
The alternative is to assume that obviously intelligent people who profess religious belief are lying. This belief is reflected in the assertion, repeated several times in the responses to my blog post, that surveys showing atheists to be a small minority of the population are inaccurate, because lots of people who are "really" atheists - like, apparently, Barack Obama - lie about it.
We know that Obama hasn't been brainwashed, as his autobiography makes clear. He came to Christianity all on his own. As for whether or not Obama is lying, in March, Sam Harris at least implied that he might be:
Despite all that he does not and cannot say, Obama's candidacy is genuinely thrilling: his heart is clearly in the right place; he is an order of magnitude more intelligent than the current occupant of the Oval Office; and he still stands a decent chance of becoming the next President of the United States. His election in November really would be a triumph of hope.
But Obama's candidacy is also depressing, for it demonstrates that even a person of the greatest candor and eloquence must still claim to believe the unbelievable in order to have a political career in this country. We may be ready for the audacity of hope. Will we ever be ready for the audacity of reason?
I don't know if Obama is sincere about his faith. I have to suspect that he is not as utterly religious as his campaign implied, but I'm not sure which would be worse: that he honestly is a believer in the granddaddy in the sky who sent his superhero son-who-was-also-Him to save the world, or that he's been lying about it. If he is lying, is it a white lie? I don't know the answer.
Anyway, back to Campos's piece. After a couple of parenthetical paragraphs disparaging atheists as fundamentalists (yet another canard that is based in ignorance of atheism and popular atheist writing), he concludes:
Here's a thought in keeping with the holiday spirit: If a smart, educated person disagrees with you about some controversial issue regarding the fundamental nature of reality, and you think his point of view can't rationally be held by such a person, maybe you need to think about it some more.
Thus the problem. If Obama is not the religious man he says he is (and I find myself hoping he isn't--it was a sticking point for me early in the presidential process), is he not perpetuating the problem that disallows nonbelievers from serving in high public office by pretending? Does it not help to prove believers' case about the "wisdom" of their position?
This seems to be Campos's whole point. If Obama believes, and assuming you think Obama is super-awesome, you probably should, too.
Well, Isaac Newton was also really smart, but he obsessed over alchemy. Does that mean all of his admirers should start trying to turn lead to gold? I really like Steve Jobs, but I also don't think it's a great idea to maniacally shout at people as a matter of course. Oh, and I think I heard somewhere that the "all-men-are-created-equal" guy owned slaves. I'm just saying.
You get my point. The threshold would seem to be very low in Professor Campos's world for taking matters of existential reality on faith, but just as Obama's sincerity might be in doubt, so should Campos's. For his tactic is to turn the atheist argument around, accusing the skeptic of being insufficiently skeptical, and patting believers on the back for having supposedly taken the more intellectually rigorous path.
That's about as disingenuous as you can get.
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Sure
There is no way a politician would ever lie. That is indeed far fetched.
Assumptions
My assumption is that I am always going to have to live in and deal with a context that is to, one degree or another, infused with religion. I have come to believe that it is incumbent upon me to make myself heard as an atheist and to demonstrate that an atheist can be a reasonable, pleasant, intelligent, understanding, sympathetic, charitable, and fulfilled person. I do not feel the need to do this in a way that insults people I know who are religious, though I know I can be more assertive with them about my understanding of reality and my construction of meaning.
Obama has demonstrated a high level of intelligence in the interactions I've witnessed, as well as a tremendous sense of political understanding and cool. I have no reason to doubt his religious inclinations. I also believe that he has a profound understanding of the constitution and the protections it places on personal beliefs.
I am also intrigued by people who seem to think, when it's convenient for their current purposes, that "if a, then b, and never c." They don't want to allow for the ability of seemingly contradictory stances to exist in the same space. I think that Obama has that ability, and it seems to me that he has not been able to express that perspective in one way or another, which gives me more hope than I have felt about any president since I've been voting.
Frank Moorman, skeptic
It is impossible to argue
with someone who has already demonstrated their brains will not accept reality and can only deal with myth, fantasy, ritual, and dogma. They go to their graves believing the utter stupidity of religion. Those that remain alive and believing NEVER question the fact the dead, stay dead.
Logical Fallacy
Basic appeal to authority fallacy. Blah - smart, educated people can be wrong. And this guy’s a Law professor? (Rolls eyes.)
A Christmas Letter: Show us some Christian Love
In this nearing birthday of the imaginary jesus, the Christians need to show us their love.
My Christmas Letter of Good Cheer to Christians:
Long before you silly, confused, lying, obfuscating, faking frauds created your NEW religion 2000 years ago (by voting jesus in as a god in 325 AD by the Nicene Council)---Winter Solstice was celebrated for at least 5000 to 8000 years before you upstarts stole the celebration, up to and including appointing the birth of jesus as the same day as Winter Solstice, Dec 25th (which conveniently was also the birthday appointed to two other gods, Apollo and Mithra).
So...when we say...Happy Winter Solstice...the traditions and acknowledgment of when the life-giving SUN is farthest from the earth and thus begins the realignment of the earth and the Sun back to being closer to us...so plants can live, we can grow food and eat, the earth warms up, water flows, and Spring is on the way...sustaining life on this planet, it is really significant. Your religion has completely ignored life on this planet which is very important. Winter Solstice means something real.
Your dream world and delusional religion, cannot plant crops, sustain life, or even acknowledge the importance of the SUN....since you are all life-haters...and are in reality suicidal self-hating creatures, who worship a neo-god who also committed suicide....
It is not Merry Whatever as one of you sarcastic xians said, chagrined at Xmas no longer being as important or "real" as it once was considered to be. Dec 25th is again being acknowledged as one of the most important days of the year known for at least 5 millenium. But, no never mind...the suffering of your imaginary jesus and gawd have to be more important than all other religions or CELEBRATIONS OF LIFE...
Instead of celebrating life, you xians worship death and just can't wait to join this multiple-god trio including a "ghost"....in eternity...doing who knows what...how boring. OK then, I say...do it....Make the 25th of December the day that you join jesus....in heaven, or where ever your delusional and insane brain takes you. Since you are saved...then joining jesus in heaven...will be just a mere step into the harmonious, ever boring after world of your brainless religious invention.
In fact...use the 25th of December...to have cruci-fiction parties....get those crosses out, nail each other to the cross....SUFFER just like jesus did....my oh my what a role model you have chosen to worship i.e. some nearly naked, bloody, beaten up dead guy in a diaper hanging on a stick who intentionally committed suicide by cop (Roman Soldier)...
PS: I would never, ever ask or approve of anyone "dying for me," or "committing suicide" for any reason so I can go to some imaginary, unknown place in the sky...and I find an entire religion based on this "belief" out right insane. The backwards of mental hospitals are full of people like you...who have done various and hideous things to themselves and others in the name of god and jesus....including drowning all of their children in a bath tub because god told them to (Andrea Yates).
If you do a Google search, or go to YouTube.com....you can take lessons on how to drive nails into your palms and feet just like some nut case Filipinos do every year. They almost got it right...problem is they don't hang on the stick long enough to end up like jesus...they just do it for only a short time, long enough to get enough attention from the crowds to satisfy their sick egoes.
Oh yeah, even you dumb xians don't even get cruci-fiction right...in real cruci-fictions by the Romans, nails were driven through the wrists....not the hands, because the many, small bones in the hand can separate by supporting the weight of the body, causing the crucified to fall off the cross and just hang upside down by their feet and flop around like a gaffed fish....so do it right...drive those Christian Nails right through the wrists...and hang there...and see if god saves you. And the more you suffer, you will know that this is what jesus wants you to do...so do it. Show us your love, show us how much you are suffering for us. Jesus is going to be so proud.
In the 21st Century....christianity is right up there with other bizarre practices, such as female genital mutilation, piercing nipples, lips, eye brows, noses, tongues, and other parts of the genitalia, or tatooing "Mother" across one's back...and other defacements of the human body. And, such practices are all supremely painful...making the sufferer "feel" as if they are doing something really unique, worthwhile, and wonderful...so join them, start nailing each other to the cross every year. Get on with your orgy of suffering "for us," and...do it right, after all jesus did it, so, why you too?
Just how much you xians hate yourselves and are willing to suffer because of self-hate, including hate for all of human life (the sin of carnality) depends on how hypocritical the xian is in reality. Real xians can't wait to die. You xians state frequently, that you are "born sinners"...you are born evil, you are not even worthy of kissing the hem of jesus "dress,"
And,...the rest of you fake your self hate, when in reality, you are full of narcisscistic, hysterical, egotistic need to dominate others, and psychologically use blackmail, extortion and threats, including instilling guilt and shame to manipulate other unsophisticated, and vulnerable human beings. Therefore, to better "sell" xianity like used car salesmen,using the most base emotions and manipulations, you xians need to crucify yourselves as a witness to your "faith" and an example of how much "christian love" means.
In reality, whereby you xians then want the rest of us to worship your suffering....its all about YOU...and getting attention. Afterall, the word "christian" means little christ...so be a little christ and crucify yourselves just like jesus did. Show us by example....what we should do, show us your love.
Xianity is all about insecurity, fear, lack of self esteem or a sense of worth of your own life and the life of others...Your religion is an example of the LUDDITE fear of progress, and the need to self destruct into annialistic mindlessness of which you just think you are going to enjoy---Forever.
Freud and other philosophers of psychology have noted there are two main drives in human beings...the drive to Live, and the drive to Die....The Christian Religion has taken the drive to DIE and encased it in an art form and an orgy of self hate, and the worship of suicide and self mutilation....well OK then...stop whining around telling everyone we should be just like you...show us by example, what you really worship and believe.
Every one of you xians...should re-enact the cruci-fiction on yourselves....show us how much you love and emulate jesus...jesus is afterall, the example you follow, so do it...crucify yourselves.
I can't wait...be sure to get someone to take pictures or a video and put it on YouTube.com...don't let the Filipinos be better xians then you.
Judy Weismonger--Atheist Activist Against Religious Insanity
Nope, we're actually about as close to the sun as we get
Not quite. The next perihelion (the point in the Earth's orbit when it's closest to the sun) is January 4th, around 3pm UT/GMT. It's currently cold in the northern hemisphere not because we're further from the sun, but because of the effects of axial tilt.
Axial Tilt
... which you can easily observe, at least here in Upstate New York, by the striking difference in the length of the days. In the summer, it's still light here at 9 p.m.; in the winter it's getting dark at 4:30 p.m. Shorter days in winter bring colder weather, longer summer days bring warmer.
That moment when the days stop getting shorter, when we flip over to gradually lengthening days, signaling the coming return of warmth and green, that's the Winter Solstice.
Jesus causes it, but it really happens because our heroic President Bush has issued an Executive Order. When Obama takes over, the land will lie in perpetual winter — just like what we saw in Narnia under the White Queen, only without the friendly talking beavers.
It's never that simple
The answer could be that Obama is a closet atheist who is smart enough to realize that state of the current political/religious arena is such that it would be impossible for an atheist to get elected president so he publicly professes belief.
At the other end it could be that he is an intelligent person who has deep religious convictions. They do exist.
The true answer likely lies in some more complicated middle ground. Many people try to oversimplify complex issues to the point where the odds of the simple answer being correct approach zero.
Good point
In all likelihood, Obama simply never really thought about religion that much as a young man. I seriously doubt he is a secret atheist-he wouldn't have had the incentive to keep it secret before he planned on having a political career. Then, when it became politically advantageous to him to get wired into a church in Chicago, there wouldn't have been any benefit to applying reason to religious claims.
Secret atheist or not, I am satisfied that he respects the rights of all Americans, whether they are believers or not.
Obama an atheist?
I don't see Obama as all that smart, having never really accomplished anything in his life before his last year as a state senator, when Emil Jones Jr. decided to make him a US senator, and stole a bunch of bills from other Democrats and let Obama champion them. He never did much as a US Senator, except take the second most campaign money from Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, just behind Chris Dodd.
http://www.houston-press.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me...
So him being religious is entirely within the scope of his intelligence from what I can see.
I'm not sure where you guys are coming from with this conclusion that Obama is smart. Before he is even president it looks like he screwed up and pulled the Fitzgerald trigger on Blagojevich prematurely.
Is he a celebrity? Yes. Does the press like him? In love with him. Is he well educated? I think his education is narrow. He can't seem to find any of his college theses or term papers for publication. His books are revealing, he turned to drugs under mild life pressure. Still smokes, a life discipline weakness. Speaks well with a teleprompter, not so well at press conferences.
I am an atheist but definitely not an Obama loving atheist. My only hope is that he IS smart, smarter than the bunch of politcal hack advisors he has surrounded himself with.
Hmm.
Bloody hell, dude. If you compare the brilliance of Obama's off-the-cuff verbal ability with Bush's, he's like a lighthouse compared to a firefly.
You know, I have a good friend who disagrees with me on the legalization of drugs (among other things). We've talked about it a half dozen times or so over the years, and I eventually concluded his resistance to the idea may be because he has a pre-teen daughter. I think he's wrong in the big picture, but I respect his feelings, and I can live with it. After all, he actually USED drugs earlier in his life, and I didn't — it could be me who's wrong, and I could even be way wrong.
But when I read your comments, I get a very different impression. You sound ... "off" ... and not in a small way.
Speaks well with a teleprompter, not so well at press conferences? What universe are you living in? And did you actually pay attention to the recent presidential campaign?
In the short range, I'd prescribe a lot less FOX News. Long range, I hope there’s more in your head than I’ve seen here.
The worst part of all of this, and the thing that spooks me most about certain people, is that right now the future of the U.S. is itself in doubt. We really do depend on Obama doing a good job. More, we depend on him BEING ALLOWED to do a good job. The field has to be clear of knee-jerk haters and racists and spitting paranoids so that the important discussions and actions – on which we all depend – actually can be accomplished.
And the right-wingers are in there like some kind of low-rent street gang with a hate on that won’t quit. They’ll talk Obama down, they’ll object to everything he does, they’ll manufacture lies like there’s no tomorrow. No matter what he tries, even if it’s a transparently good thing, they’ll fight him. Even if it brings down the world, they’ll oppose every word and deed ... just because he’s not a Bill O’Reilly-approved conservative.
There’s an expression that has to do with someone “rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic goes down.” But at least there’s something benign about that, however pathetic the end result.
Right-wingers would fight over who got the last slice of cake while the house burned down. They not only won’t do anything good, they’ll do their best to sabotage the good that OTHERS try to do ... even if it kills them too. We’re already seeing it.
And guy, to me, you really do look like one of ‘em.
Obama
Hank,
You accuse me of things I didn't do, then you turn around and do them yourself. "knee-jerk haters and racists and spitting paranoids....And guy, to me, you really do look like one of ‘em."
Calm down, take some of those narcotics that you think should be legalized.
All I said was that Obama hasn't done anything in his life of consequence, that's an observation, not a knee-jerk, hateful racist statement. Name one thing of consequence that he has done before he ran for president. Name one specific thing he has said at a press conference that was significant. I think you put a lot of emphasis on style versus substance. Plus the softball questions he gets from the media versus the presumptuous insulting questions that Bush got should be obvious even to a committed leftist.
Sounds to me like you leftists are starting to declare all Obama criticism to be race related before he is even inaugurated. If I see a pattern of non-substance from Obama it must be because I hate him. Strong logic on your part. Sounds emotionally knee jerky to me.
Cool your jets, as I said, I hope you are right, let's just see all the smart things he does to bring the country back. I have HOPE that Obama will CHANGE.