Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Atheism in a microKosm
I hang out a fair amount on Daily Kos, and have been there for ages. It's an odd little slice of Americana - generally left/progressive, intelligent and educated people who share the goal of furthering Democratic candidates and objectives. Naturally, it is subject to its own cycles of rants and obsessions, when one topic gets everyone's dander up, or one faction takes on another.
There are a fair number of atheists there, who generally hang out with everyone else without provoking a fight - the site is about politics, not religion, after all. But every now and then something happens to cause this amorphus group to gel, and I find it very insightful when that happens.
I was busy with other things yesterday, so didn't spend a whole lot of time at dKos, so I missed one such convergence. This morning I saw a diary, which lead to another, which cited two others. Here they are (though I caution you that some of them are huge - with upwards of 800 comments - ungainly things which may give your computer indigestion):
Richard Dawkins Video Collection - In Your Face Atheism
Richard Dawkins: God, He's Wonderful!
Atheists, get out of my face! (Initial title: Atheists, get the fuck out of my face!)
Dear Faithists. STFU about myths.
Just dip into any or all of these, and you will probably notice the same thing that I noticed: not just that there are some first-rate arguments about atheism, but that in general the tone seems to be one of activism. It's like we have crossed some cultural threshold, and the average atheist is feeling more comfortable "being out" and self-identifying as atheists.
Granted, within the framework of a site like dKos, it is relatively safe for an atheist to be out. But this is a change from the relatively few high-profile atheists (DarkSyde probably being the most eloquent and prominent of them all) there, who were allowed their little eccentricity of not believing in Big Magic JuJu Guy. And I think that is says something about the broader culture.
Thoughts?
Jim Downey
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I don't usually read Kos
But when DarkSyde interviewed Brent, the comments were mostly negative and invoked the usual stereotypes about atheists.
I remember that.
Yeah, I remember that as well. Perhaps this is another snapshot - a glimpse at the changing attitudes. But it is purely anecdotal.
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
Uppity atheists
I started writing a comment and it got out of hand in terms of length, so I posted it here if anyone's interested:
Uppity atheists
Basically, I'm surpised by the vehemence of the backlash against atheists by conservatives and religious liberals alike, and how they've seized on the "fundamentalist atheist" meme like Fox News on a Karl Rove talking point. The word that keeps coming into my mind as I look at the response to Dawkins et al. is "uppity" as in: "How dare those uppity atheists! Don't they know their place?"
- No More Mr. Nice Guy!
Excellent post!
NMMNG - good job, and I would heartily encourage everyone to check out the link and read it for yourself.
From the URL on your site, I assume that you're somewhere in the UK. Must be a very odd perspective on things like dKos and the whole American thralldom to religion - a good buddy of mine was stationed in the UK for the first five years of this decade, and said that he couldn't believe the changes which happened, even keeping up with the news from back home.
Anyway, good post. Thanks for sharing it.
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
Thanks, Jim!
No, I'm not in the UK - I'm actually in Phoenix. It's just that when I went to register a domain name, all the obvious ones were taken, but I got a good package deal on domain registration and hosting from a UK company.
- No More Mr. Nice Guy!
Ah...
I probably should have caught that somewhere along the line, so please forgive. I figured you must be an American (your knowledge of the culture was too great), but perhaps you were overseas for school or job.
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
The Internet
Jim, I think that the Internet is as responsible as anything for us feeling more comfortable with talking about our lack of belief. For most of my life before the computer, it felt lonely out here. I certainly met a few people who shared my views, but there was little "community". Now most of the people I talk to (even if only through email) are atheists and/or scientists, and I know I'm not the only person feeling the way I do. I now have rational "friends" in 11 countries and most of the US states.
Actually
I've been amazed at the way posters I generally think of as fairly levelheaded, thoughtful writers have been acting like flaming assholes in the atheism diaries. Mind you, there's plenty of that on both sides to go round, but it is DKos diary comments after all.
The Defenders of Faith are not liking getting called on their position of privilege at all. And they're really caterwauling when it's pointed out forcefully that no, atheism is in fact not a religion.
I think you're right and there is an emerging "out" atheist movement, and the fear response is coming from the prospect of having to deal with a Malcolm X or Larry Kramer style atheist in public during an election.
I don't bear a grudge. I have no surviving enemies.
Love the sig.
But beyond that, Usagi, I have to agree. I think that the space created by the books by Dawkins and Harris have helped a lot of people who are skeptical come out of the closet, as 'twere. Knowing that you are not entirely on your own helps bolster most people's courage.
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
I hang out a fair amount on
You, sir, are a braver man than I.
--
"Ponies are atheists, you know, technically."
- Me
Or...
...as I've said on my novel hompage, just not smart enough to know better. ;)
Seriously, it is interesting for someone not wed to either political party and somewhat at odds with the prevailing attitudes of both to be there. But by and large I've been able to maintain a pretty good relationship over the three years or so I have done so - much better than I have been able to do at any of the dedicated Republican sites (or such places as Democratic Underground, for instance.)
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
The broader culture has a number of atheist stereotypes
just as we have a number of "religious person" stereotypes. Neither are particularly helpful though it is easy enough to find individuals who fit them. I know so many very good people who are Christians - counterexamples to the Ted Haggard stereotype. I self-identify sometimes as an atheist (when it's relevant) but ethically I self-identify as a humanist.
This blog has been doing a great job of focusing on what atheism is and is not.
Definitely.
Definitely. When I found it, it was a source of real comfort and inspiration - kudos to Brent and all those who have contributed!
Jim Downey
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering."
- R. Buckminster Fuller