Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
The true ugliness of religion.
Take a look at this news article from the UK. A devout Muslim man murders his wife and four young daughters because they were becoming too westernized. Burns them alive, then kills himself, all while his 17-year-old son is dying of cancer in the hospital. (the son died 6 weeks later, completely alone) This highlights the power and danger of organized religion.
Stories like this happen way too often, on both small and large scales. When I see stories like this it makes the theoretical discussion all too real. This is what religion is ACTUALLY doing. I don't want to hear about all the good religion does, about the science that proves it wrong, about the debate.
Four young children and one woman are dead because of one mans delusional paranoia built on lies. Somewhere there is a so-called holy man who helped feed this man's religious fervor. There is a book that spelt out the reasons why his family had to die, and we all know what that book is.
This man committed this horrible crime based upon teachings he received from other people. Why is no one else responsible for this? Why is no one else accountable?
Because people say religion is personal, private and everyone should have freedom of religion. When I see stories like this, I could not disagree more. As much as I am an advocate of personal freedoms, there are some freedoms we should not have.
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it's a footloose thing
Same thing happened here in Australia, not more than a few months ago. Old beliefs die hard.
To our friend Magnus... As the line goes, when was the last time you saw an atheist kill someone in the name of his (or her) beliefs?
More patriarchy than religion
This wasn't about religion. It was an entitled asshole who felt robbed of his birthright as the family emperor. Brought up to view himself as above women and entitled to lead the family, he could not cope when his wife stepped forward. The resentment finally spilled over into homicidal rage after a drinking binge (what piety...) and he tried to prove his power the only way he could.
In short, the god they had forsaken wasn't Allah, it was Mohammed Riaz.
It's true religion is deeply intertwined with the misogynist social order around most of the world, but it's a mistake to think that it is the root cause for it. The powers that be have always shaped religion to further their goals, and a fundamental pillar of all authoritarian systems is the pyramid of power; the great masses are kept in line by a blessed elite, who are given just enough power that they can deny they are themselves oppressed. To keep any tendencies for revolt firmly in check, every group should be headed by a delegate for the powers, and the most fundamental group is the family. Since the powers that be are men, it's no wonder that religion prescribe that every family should be lead by a man.
The "No True Scotsman"
The "No True Scotsman" argument on the first post - is that some sort of record?
Interesting that when someone does something "bad" while claiming religious justification, faith-advocates leap to any number of conclusions about the "real" motives, since the claimed religious support must be wrong.
The problem with religion is that it assures you it has all the answers in the abstract, and then provides none when you reach a real, concrete and personal crisis. Faced with proof of religion's big lie, is it any wonder that a faithful practitioner feels despair? Religion claims a monopoly on truth, which isolates the believer from external sources of aid when religion fails. In other words, it encourages it's members to conclude that if god cannot (or will not) help them, no-one can.
Religion masterfully spins the fallout of this despair into a caution against failing to believe in the tenets of the church - further isolating the surviving community from outside aid, and helping to escalate the depravity of later incidents.
Here's a thought - if, instead of spending his childhood being pumped full of religion-supported moral absolutism this person had been taught secular techniques for rational problem solving, interpersonal communication and empathy for others, and an understanding of the social contract, do you think this situation would have prompted him to a similar act of violence, or would he have sought help from secular sources?
Apparently we're all Scotsmen...
Here we go:
1) The drinking and the suicide fits very, very badly with a religious zealot, most of whom are actually proud of what they have done. There was a perfect case this week where a regional minister in Pakistan were shot dead at a political meeting for not being veiled enough (I can't find a link at the moment).
2) It is a near perfect fit with the man who, realizing he's a failure, lashes out against the people he consider responsible.
Look at the facts a bit closer than "he was a muslim, case closed". He was also an immigrant, isolated by lacking language skills. His despair is understandable, and the way it grew into resentment when he saw his wife and children doing much better is unfortunately all too easy to imagine.
Your last paragraph is interesting: You are effectively positing that if he'd been enlightened, then this would never have happened. No Shit, tell me more. Your problem is that this is only relevant if you think lack of religion automatically brings enlightenment, which it doesn't; you can be an atheist and still be an asshole. While I think abolishment of religion is a good thing, I'm not naïve enough to think it will solve all our problems.
I agree with you.....
But the fact still remains that Islam gave this man a valid reason to justify his actions. Hell, the Koran told him to do what he did in no uncertain terms.
Maybe this person was unstable already, maybe he was a serial killer. Maybe he had a bad drug trip, maybe his mother didn't hug them enough as a baby. I don't know and I don't care. Whatever feelings he had which pushed him towards violent behavior were validated and encouraged by his religious fervor.
I am not naïve enough to believe that ending religion will solve all the world's problems. But it is a damn good start.
I'm not sure about that...
Yes, but that patriarchy is founded in their religious teachings. The fact the he was brought up this way is a product of his religious upbringing. So while I agree that, in truth they had forsaken Riaz, in his mind they had disobeyed Islamic law.
In any case, your point does not change the fact that this individual probably would not have killed his family if he was not Islamic.
Another point in this case; the family lived in England. If they lived in an Islamic country they he would not have killed them because he could legally beat them if they disobeyed them, and the law backed him up.
A final note; prior to the rise of Christianity and Islam the major religions of the middle east had women as central figures of authority and gave women similar social rankings as men. This was before the rise of the male-dominated Christian and Islsamic world. It is sad how far backwards we went when Christianity and Islam began to dominate the world.