Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
$500 to try out 5 churches. Would you go?
So, here's the deal: A religious broadcaster in Toronto wanted to get a non-religious person to try out attending services at five churches, blog about it, and would pay them $100 per service. The goal, as stated on the website about the 'experiment':
The Drew Marshall Show is looking for a pagan/new age/agnostic/ atheist/whatever... someone with no church background, to participate in a research project for our radio show. We need you to visit five churches in the Toronto area during the month of June with our host Drew Marshall. In return for your time and opinions based on your non-churched experience, The Drew Marshall Show will pay you $100 per church and invite you to be our guest during our July 7th show to share your experience. No catch, no proselytising, no pressure!
We just need you to help the Church see itself as you see it!
They wound up choosing two young people, a man and a woman, to participate. The initial blog entries are somewhat interesting, and I'm curious to see how this plays out.
So, would you do it?
Jim Downey
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$100? Sweet
Granted I'm in the UK and granted $500 is not a lot of money, but I'd cheerfully do it. Reckon they will extend hands across the water?
I'm ALL for bilking some of that sweet, sweet god money that some chuckling funsters want to chuck the way of Behe and Dembski for books and Ham for museums. I wants mah cut dammit! ;-)
Support an atheist, send him cash for trivial nonsense! Woohoo!
Louis
I'd take it.
I'd take a hundred bucks a pop to go to church. How long is church? Three hours tops, that's over $30 an hour tax free. I'd even quit my job and go to church twenty hours a week. Way better gig than what I got now.
And I don't care if it's Canadian; It's still a good deal.
Bet I would qualify
How would one go about signing up for this easy money? Of course it is idiocy but social security isn't all that much money to live on. Besides...it would be an interesting psychosociological experiment.
I was raised sans church, and raised my children the same. I recall a friend in the 4th grade wondering how I could be so good since I didn't go to church. I recall feeling like a schlemiel(sp?) in the second grade when the teacher would ask us to raise our hands if we went to sunday school or church that Sunday....the real question being who was good. It made me cringe in horror ...because I wanted to be "good" yet couldn't raise my hand.
Lee
Sounds like a interesting
Sounds like a interesting experiment, but I think it will be hard to find a persone with no religion / church background!
Hmm...
I think the key is the line about "someone with no church background." I'll bet that means I, who attended church 40 years ago, and am now a complete atheist, wouldn't qualify. I can imagine some heavy interviewing to weed out anyone with real opinions.
I can see them picking a doofus who can be convinced of anything, and I'd bet the person chosen will be heavily chaperoned and sold on the experience, with the entire church membership tipped off ahead of time to give the guy the full "love" experience.
Although ... if an independent atheist could find out ahead of time just WHICH churches the guy was going to go to, and then just go on his own at the same time and blog about it, that might be interesting too.
Yeah, that's what I noted, too.
Yeah, that's what I noted, too. But in reading the first couple of blog entries, I was happy to see that while they picked a couple of university students, it doesn't look like they got doofuses (doofi?) Both of the participants were rather stunned at the level of money already gathered this year at the one small middle-class church they attended, and didn't seem particularly impressed with the sermon/message.
Jim Downey
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Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
This could seriously backfire
Would they take a former minister-turned atheist? I'd blog five churches ranging from super-fundie to progressive, then donate $500 to American's United for separation of church and state.
But they want someone with "little church background".
No backfire possible
Yes, it could backfire, but I am sure the selection process ensured the weeding out of intelligent, well spoken atheists. I am sure they didn't pick someone like Brent or Jim. Probably more of an Alan Colmes type.
You used to be a minister? I'd love to hear that story some day.
Same here.
Me too. Have you told it someplace you can link to?
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
It really isn't a very interesting story
The ministry is one of those fields that has a very high attrition rate in the first year or two. We end up selling insurance, doing computer support, whatever we can cobble together telling potential employers; "Sure, I have a degree in Bible and that isn't relevant to your business, but if I can learn ancient Greek I can surely learn how to ________"
I wrote about it here but the comments that readers left were more interesting by far than the essay itself. Some of them told their own stories, left different insights, or just left kind words and good wishes.
Many great quotes
On the contrary. You are very modest. It was a great essay and you should be congratulated for being so open and honest about your personal life.
Many great quotes of yours I found:
I gave up early on, because it just didn't make sense. The exclusion, the lack of tolerance and the mythology just sounded silly.
One of the biggest problems I had with god belief is that you can sin, then ask for forgiveness over and over and over. That is dumbest thing I have ever heard. How about trying to be a good person instead? It sounded like a liscense to be a jerk.
Absolutely true. What is good for me, is good for us all.
God does exist if you are a person of faith, in your mind only! I don't need an imaginary friend. I am all grown up now and responsible for my own deeds. I don't make excuses. Excuses satisfy only those that make them.
Being gay is becoming boring and that is a good thing. It's like being left handed. Who cares? Seeing guys holding hands and kissing used to seem wierd, but the more common it becomes, the more oblivious I become. I hope the same for atheists.
Well said. I don't care if you want to be christian or whatever, just leave me and the rest of society alone. Why is it considered good to be a person of faith? The ability to ignore logic and reason is good? No friggin way! Is this a healthy thing to teach children? I don't think so.
about christian friends:
I have heard this enough times to make me crazy. Worry about yourselves. If there is a heaven, I don't want to go. It will be full of Jesus freaks.
I will have to memorize and steal this line sometime for my own writing. Hope you don't mind.
“a cold and broken alleluia”
Actually, DOF, I beg to differ. I think your essay is very powerful, and would serve as an honest and forthright template for anyone struggling with the inconsistancies of their belief. (Hey, Bisch, take a look...)
Very well done.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
Decrepit Old Fool
I agree with Jim. You obviously have thought much about this, and your honesty in sorting through all the details is impressive. Of course I wish it had turned out different for you.
I haven't known any professed atheists before, so I didn't have any preconceived notions of the evilness or lack thereof of folks who don't believe God exists. I do enjoy reading what you guys think, though, in that it gives me a small glimpse into your minds, minds that can't wrap around a belief that my mind so easily can. So from that perspective, it's pretty interesting.
And I hope I am doing more than providing comic relief for y'all, that I am actually contributing to some furthering of your tolerance or understanding of christians. I do appreciate your comments and willingness to dialogue with me.
What a bunch of creeps. I appreciate that you say that in itself, that didn't undermine your faith, but it had to have some effect. But for them to do that to you is disgusting and unconscionable.
This is an interesting one to me, and one that I think I have resolved in my mind. I've mentioned before about how I acknowledge that my talking about Jesus without significant knowledge about my life does very little good. Taking it one step further, I have allowed myself, with God's permission I believe, to remove my concern about people's eternity from a practical perspective. Of course I would love to convince anyone of Jesus's goodness, but I am okay with allowing God to do the convincing and to remove the "responsibility" from me.
...
We poor atheists, with our limited minds. It's sad, really.
poorly written
Reading that again, it does sound condescending. I totally didn't mean it that way. I was only commenting about the fact that we come to such different conclusions.
It would have been just as correct to state it "...a small glimpse into your minds, minds that can so easily wrap around a disbelief in God, disbelief that my mind can't."
Sorry for my lapse.
You keep saying that...
An observation: you keep saying things like that about one congregation or church group or set of believers or another when you come across our experiences with such.
"No true Scotsman" fallacy?
Jim Downey
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Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
It's not just Bisch
Jim, I hear the same thing all the time. A poster here named Pastors Husband apologized for my indoctrination experiences and claimed that it wasn't christian. WTF? Who decides what is and isn't christian? Wingnuts? Neo-cons? Evangelicals? Falwell? Why don't people just say 'I' don't think that is correct. Stop trying to speak for a whole group and don't apologize. I am not mad at my parents or my former church. I am thankful they said the shameful things. It helped to open my eyes.
If it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger.
Thank you
I am glad you found the essay worth reading!
I wish that being gay, or atheist, were 'boring' but the religious Right is still working hard to use both groups as a political threat.
Bisch, the people at that church weren't creeps - they were just like you and me. And they were right for the wrong reasons. Plainly, I didn't belong in the ministry.
I don't think so
I feel like I've wasted more than enough hours of my life in church that I'd probably pass on this deal. I suppose $100 per service may seem like a lot to some, but I think it would take more than that for me to willingly expose myself to that sort of idiocy.