Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Ideology
During the course of my life (I'll be thirty mid-August) I've often wondered why my perspective on various issues differed from most of the other people I've met. Skepticism has, of course, played a major roll in why I view the world as I do...but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think, and I hope, that part of the reason that my worldview is outside of what's considered "normal" is that I don't buy into any particular ideology. As it says under my portrait, I'm a "liberal libertarian with conservative leanings". What that ends up meaning, government wise, is that I want to leave the parts of government that I think work and ditch the parts that I think are extraneous or don't work. The same idea applies for me philosophically.
It seems to me that when most people buy into a philosophy, religion, or even just a course of action they commit themselves wholeheartedly to it. When RAH's book "Stranger in a Strange Land" was released people bought in and formed "nests" of their own...despite the fact that a "nest" by itself leached off of the society around it for support (much like any cult or religion). In my short time on this planet I've had some things change my perspective. One of those was reading Ayn Rand's books, particularly "Atlas Shrugged". John Galt is and was an inspiring character and I can indeed see the "virtue of selfishness". Despite loving the book , I can still see the flaws in the idealized system that Rand seems to be extolling. They're as obvious to me as the flaws in any communist, socialist or laissez-faire capitalist worldview. When everyone is a hero, the ideological system always works and seems fabulous.
The point is that I think people end up finding something that their comfortable with and then buy into that idea completely, including any flaws. Yes, I'm accusing most people of being intellectually lazy. Whether it's Objectivism, Christianity, Islam, Liberalism, Libertarianism or a conservative worldview I want to be able to take the positive aspects of each and leave the chaff behind. I welcome people that challenge how I view the world and would really like it if the rest of humanity would accept the challenges that they encounter too; without just disregarding them because they don't fit nicely within their ideologically limited window of perspective.
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Are you really this open?
I think atheism is just a religion. Can you give me any real evidince against this claim?
Or are you to stuck in proving your views right?
Your arguements against the existance of god are weak.
Can any of you offer any facts or can you just change the subject?
And provide a logicaly sound argument?
Atheism is a religion to
we all gravitate towards what is most comfortable to accept. Most people think they are logical and scientific yet most people would be blown away by the things science is discovering (i'm not implying that science has discovered god or any evidence either way.)
scientific facts
Can anyone here come up with any hard concrete verifiable scientific facts to support the absolute none existance of god.
No.
No.
Can you come up with any hard concrete verifiable scientific facts to support the absolute nonexistence of Repudnek the Fashionably Unobservable, the magnificent friendly Balrog who lives in my basement? Can you absolutely disprove the secret underground North Pole thermonuclear weapon and toy construction facilities of Santa Claus, manned by a slave labour force of elves? Can you absolutely disprove the existence of roaming gangs of tooth fairies running an underworld black market economy of children's teeth? Or how about absolutely disproving that the British Parliament is in fact being mind-controlled by an all-seeing tin of baked beans in orbit around Saturn?
Thought not.
Hey!
Repudnek said he was my very best and only friend. He's been two-timing me all this time! Bloody flamer of Udun. Just wait until I tell Morgoth on him.
Heh, the MIRV of some people. Don't they know that nuclear weapons, like plastic bags, are not toys? I am sure the elves are very happy in their slavery. After all the bible approves of it you know.
Do they try these gangs in the Unseelie court? Have the children been adversely impacted and what do they do with these teeth exactly?
Ah, so that's where the 'one ring to rule them all' is. It's a bit bigger than I was led to believe and the bean inclusion is a nice human touch.
How about this
Thameron was right. We are not making a claim...you are...and that claim is that "God" exists. Now, please provide hard,verifiable scientific evidence that "God" exists and I will amend my position to that of a "believer".
This sort of thing has been said time and time again on this site and on sites like this but, Can you provide hard, verifiable, scientific evidence that a beige and cream, invisible, flying hippo doesn't hover over each of our heads?
I've never seen you
Does that mean you don't exist?
Claiming that another human being exists
Is not an extrordinary claim. Each of us has met other human beings and most of us see them every day. Saying that there is an imperceptible extra cosmic magical being who created the universe and then 9 billion years later created life is an extrordinary claim and requires proof.
Some additional extrordinary claims commonly made for this being -
- This being is omniscient.
- This being is omnipotent.
- This being is 'good' tautologically defined as whatever it is/does/has done or will do is 'good' without regard to how a human might define that word or judge those actions.
- This being has created some sort of extra-dimensional pleasure resort to reward those who worship this being in the correct fashion (fashion varies considerably among cultures).
- This being has created some sort of extra dimensional agonizing prison to eternally punish those who fail to carry out the appropriate actions and think the appropriate thoughts (appropriate thoughts and actions vary considerably from culture to culture).
- This being has endowed human beings, alone of all creatures on the planet, with some sort of imperceptible ectoplasmic recoding device (typically referred to as a 'soul') which will maintain their consciousness after their brain's neural activity has ceased. This 'soul' is transported by method unknown to one or the other of the aforementioned extra-dimensional spaces.
Each of these are extrordinary claims as well and each would require their own evidence. To date none has been offered.
After two to three decades...
...of very carefull thought, I've not been able to think of any. Nor have I read of any that anyone else has come up with. Are you not able to think of any either?
-Col.
You think up an inherently uprovable reality model
And then are somehow surprised and self congratulatory when no one disproves it. Astounding.
The burden of proof lies squarely on those who make extrordinary claims. That would be you. Scientists thankfully have better things to do than occupy all their time disproving all the myths conjured by humanity's collective imagination.
I've seen god.
I've seen god. This world is an illusion in your mind. Your science is a delusion That YOU fabricated in your mind to convince yourself of the reality of the illusion. God is the absolute reality.
Atoms where unprovable to cavemen. Quantum science is unfathamable to neadrathals. Science doesn't have all the answers. We don't have all the technology. Their is so much we still don't know.
An illusion is it?
Well if that is true and you who have seen god have such mastery of it then you won't have any trouble stepping out in front of a speeding truck. Nor climbing to the top of a tall building and stepping off. If the truck is an illusion then it wont harm you. If the pavement is an illusion then it can't kill you. Of course you will not do these either of these things because you know that the world is real and that these actions will have very real consequences. You wont even stop eating all of that illusory food nor drinking that phantasmal water. Just try to stop breathing all that ephemeral air for just ten minutes. Saying the world is an illusion is the purest drivel. The objective world gave rise to our brains not the other way around.
*sing-song* Life is but an illusion
Speaking of illusions, when I was 5 my Pop-Pop told me at the beach that no one and nothing existed until I turned my head to see it. People walking down the street didn't exist until they walked into my view or I could perceive them in some way. This blew my little 5 year old mind. I was the center of the universe! The reality that everyone else thought they knew was nothing without me. If this was true, "god is love" didn't exist until I came to the page and read his or her comment. I was god for a little while. Right up until I started seeing evidence of the existence of human beings that was not linked to me in any way.
I think it's really interesting that life as we know it and facts and science are the supposed illusions. If 'god is love" back away from his/her own point of view and look at only the evidence, Life as we know it = all of the facts, god as the true state of being = no facts. I guess you could say this is because we have constructed our science to fit into the illusion. The scientific process is a way to look at things that attempts to remove as much potential for personal bias and unfounded claims as possible. Even if "life is but an illusion", there is more evidence that it is "real" than "not real". In any case, it is where I am carrying out my existence and I'm quite happy to be here. I'm not interested in going all medieval on you and living for the real life beyond death. Wouldn't this be a nice place to life if we all stopped worrying about what might happen to us after we die and start dealing with what is happening to all of us right now? It seems the safer course of action to me no matter your religious or non-religious beliefs. Row, Row, Row your boat...GENTLY down the stream (or up the stream if down the stream isn't what floats you).
Mandy U
P.S. If you've seen god, lay some facts on us. What did it look, feel, smell, taste like? How big was it? When did this event happen? How did you know it was god?
Which facts would you like
I am always curious when people posit the question this way rather than putting forth facts to bolster their own case for the existence of God. So I'll ask, just what sort of facts would you take as proof of the non-existence of God?
What is God's mass?
What is God's velocity?
What is God's electromagnetic wavelength?
What are God's dimensions?
What is God's electric charge?
How strong is God's magnetic field?
How does God interact with particles and waves?
Considering how shy God is it makes the neutrino look positively gregarious. So just what scientific evidence or fact will you accept as proof of God's lack of existence? No, you don't need to tell me I already know the answer: None. Even if I had the Godometer2000a (guaranteed to detect a deity at a range of 200ft) and everywhere I went the meter held fast to 0 I could hear the excuses now -
"God wasn't where you were measuring. You need to go to the moon/Mars/Jupiter/Alpha Centauri/Andromeda that's where God hangs out."
"God was making you not see the result."
"The machine would only work if you already believed in God."
Its up to you to offer the proof of God's existence, not up to us to prove he does not exist. Oh, and while you are at it you need to prove that everybody else's God does not exist. Best of luck.
how about dimension
How about space? Try applying the same logic to a dimension of space?
I can directly observe
both the three dimensions of space and the effects of the forth dimension of time. All I observe of God is a bunch of people talking about something they cannot prove, a deity which they make in their own image. Somewhat unconvincing. I can also observe that you did not answer my question (although in truth I didn't really expect that you would). As far as disproof goes, we need not even resort to science. Take whatever super secret method you used to dismiss all of the other gods which people have conceived since the dawn of religion and apply that method to whatever god you believe in and voila! Your god will disappear in a puff of logic (cleans up with soap and water).
does time exist?
What is time's mass?
What is time's velocity?
What is time's electromagnetic wavelength?
What are time's dimensions?
What is time's electric charge?
How strong is time's magnetic field?
How does time interact with particles and waves?
Great argument I think you just proved that time doesn't exist.
Speaking of ideology...
...this is a rather clever clip:
If FDR were GWB.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
Bill O'reilly's Home Address
.
Send all your used dildos to:
William J. O'Reilly and Maureen E. McPhilmy-O'Reilly.
.
Is it genetic?
Very funny. I have been following Bill O's war with Kos as well. What a self righteous douche-bag to attack Kos for the same nonsense that goes on at his website. Is it genetic? Can someone actually be born a hypocrite?
I am fresh out of used dildos but I will think of something to send. Thanks Guy.
Dirk
watch out for fascists
I am an independent thinker as well, and I never got into politics until recently. I have discovered a candidate who has some "radical" ideas about the nature of government, and his following has been growing faster than that of any other candidate. His name is Ron Paul. If you chek him out on youtube I think you will really like what he has to say. He has a real chance to win, if we stop being lazy and refuse to allow the government to strip away our god-given rights. Restore the Constitution!
Ron Paul says some good
Ron Paul says some good things, but is also has some serious problems with his ideas on religion I've also heard some things I disagree with about abortion, though I haven't looked into that very much. What I've seen gives me the impression that Paul is the type of libertarian that's ok with violation of people's rights, just as long as it's not the federal governement that's doing the violating.
As for the original post I agree with you pretty much entirely. Though I think there's also big problem of people viewing others' views simply as a label that can be easily dismissed. I've seen so many people try to refute arguments with nothing more than "you just think that because you're [liberal, conservative, atheist, believer, insert favored enemy here]. It's really amusing to see this directed at people who actually have complex beliefs that don't fit neatly into the label being applied.
Why they are not different
RickU, I liked your little paragraph about how you are different. I guess I can describe myself in a similar manner. Whatever the combination of reasons (part evolution, part education; part dimwit, part slow; part stubborn, part afraid; part indoctrined; part hectic life, part no challenge, etc..), it is obvious that a vast majority of population do not examine their worldviews occasionally, or ever. Religion tops their list of consistency.
Eh.. you reminded me of those old days when I was soaking up Ayn Rand. 'Atlas Shrugged' was the best. It was idealistic, boring as a fiction--but it had spurred my imagination like few other books. For the first time, just out of teenage, I saw the world in a different light.. virtue of selfishness..money meaning reward for productivity..creativity..materialism..standing up for personal values.. I wonder where does today's teenage turn to for such inspiration.
BTW, I am the 'anonymous user' of past few days. While still anonymous, I now have a brand to represent. And as Thameron knows partly, I am an altruist (without being Jain), atheist, carnivore, scientist, clinician, generally nice, with occasional sharp edge.
Nature nurture
Human beings are social creatures and in a society there are a few leaders and many followers. If I had to guess I'd say that some people at least are born with the desire if not the ability to lead. So, given that there are many with the tendency of following it is logical to posit that they will pay attention to what their leaders say and not subject it to too close an examination. If everybody analyzed the leaders decisions in depth likely little would get done. I think this is why it is that many people believe and few do not. The leaders (except in communist countries where political ideology is substituted for religion) are all god-talkers. If we were all hermits I think there would be a religion for each person.