Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Religion causes no harm?
In arguments with theists, you'll often hear, "Well, why do you care? What harm is a person's belief doing?" You'll also hear folks get upset when R. Dawkins says that indoctrinating children into religion is child abuse. A story today on MSNBC shows a clear example of the harm that religion can cause.
In short, a 14 year old boy refused a blood transfusion because he'd been taught that it would make him "unclean". A child refused medical care, with his guardian's consent, because of his faith. I don't think there can be a clearer example of the damage faith can cause than this.
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Oh well
You know, I think the judge did the right thing. I don't agree with people who think it's OK to force others to live against their will. According to the article the boy knew he was going to die without treatment, but also that he knew even with treatment he was only going to live another 5 years at most, so for him it was a choice between "death now with your purity intact or death later having been corrupted by unclean blood (hmm... blood, wait wrong track)". Since his Aunt is his legal guardian his parents giving him permission means (to my knowledge) jack squat in our legal system. Yes, in 4 years there could be treatment that could have extended his life, but there also might not (or it might cost too much). It's pointless to make such a decision based on what might be in the future. Yes, there might be a cure for leukemia in a few years, but you've still got to live with it until then. Yes in 10 years they might have invented a way to remove CO2 from the atmosphere efficiently enough to cancel all of the emittions since the industrial revolution, but we can't count on that. To me banking on something that hasn't even been invented being produced in time to do any good is only slightly more realistic than praying for god to make you better.
It's funny, but you act like this is somehow weird or unheard of. In fact there's a history of people refusing amputation that can save their life (septicemia is nasty once it gets going) but don't do so because they believe if they lose a limb in life their soul will also be limbless after they die.
"If there is evil in this world, it lurks within the hearts of men" ~Edward D. Morrison, Tales of Phantasia
The price of freedom
It's terrible what happened to this kid, but sometimes that is the price of freedom. The only thing close to a "holy scripture" I recognize is the US Constitution. The Constituion specifically grants us freedom of and freedom from religion.
I agree, but what can be done about it? I don't think we should change the Constitution to outlaw religion. I can't imagine living in a country where I had no choices. We can only hope that with better education and exposure to better ideas, people will reject dark age mentalities. It's really a shame because at 14, this kid was just starting to be able to understand all of the choices he had. I wonder if the outcome would have been different if this situation happened 5 years from now?
Nor do I.
Nor do I, but that isn't what this was about. Rather, it is a very old question of whether or not the State has a compelling interest to protect the life of a minor against the wishes or beliefs of the parents/guardians. Certainly, I agree that an adult should be free to choose medical treatment (or not). The tough question comes in at what point the law should respect the wishes of an adolescent - and it sounds like this judge did indeed consider the level of (relative) maturity of the boy.
So, legally, it is probably the correct decision. But Rick is also completely correct in saying that it is a very good demonstration of the harm caused by religion.
Jim Downey
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Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
Nothing legal
I wouldn't want anything legal to be done about it. People should be free. All WE can do morally (IMO) is help educate folks.
Freedom
I've recorded tapes of ideas, etc., throughout my life, since I was in my 20s. A few years back, I got some of those early tapes and took them with me on a road trip, just to see what I was thinking back then.
I couldn't bear to listen to them all the way through. The guy on the tapes was so utterly clueless it was embarrassing. And yet BACK THEN, I probably thought I was smart and wise and in control.
Looking back on my life from my supposedly mature viewpoint of today, I don't think I became a conscious human being until I was well into my 30s.
I can't help but think of the many other situations 14-year-olds are probably not qualified to make independent decisions about: driving a car, drinking, voting, tattooing, operating a chainsaw, etc.
Wake Up
Great point.
I know for a fact that I was not a fully sentient human being until I was at least in my thirties. So much of what we do is automatic, and without conscious control - including cognition. It takes work, and the specific mental skills that we call critical thinking to really "wake up", rub your metaphorical eyes, and think, 'Oh, right. Here I am. I'm right here. Damn, how long have I been asleep? All my life? Great. Time to quit going through the motions.'
So?
Lots of adults I've seen I probably wouldn't call "sentient" simply because they never seem to think about long term consequences of their actions (Bush, for example, could not be deemed a sentient life form). It's true that people's mind set changes over time, you gain experience, level up (well, metaphorically speaking) see the world, rework old opinions and generally see more examples of how bloody annoying humans can be.
"If there is evil in this world, it lurks within the hearts of men" ~Edward D. Morrison, Tales of Phantasia
The evolution of my sentience..right here on UTI!
Well, judging from this unofficial average (all be it with the extremely small sample size of 2) I've got a lot of growing to do. Thank you all for helping me to shape and modify my world view...and to keep me re-examining it with each piece of new information that I learn. This is just one of the reasons that UTI is important to me personally. Hooray for smart people and Hooray for UTI!!
Mandy U
Heh.
And the REALLY weird thing is that those people like we used to be are allowed to have actual, live human children in their care.
Wow.
Kid with leukemia
I saw that story too.
I was kinda flabbergasted that the judge in the case ruled that the boy could refuse the transfusion, against the wishes of his parents, but in accord with his Jehovah's Witness aunt, whom he lived with.
Also, the kid died. Doctors in the case said he had a 70 percent chance of living 5 years with transfusions. That sounds pretty grim, but then again, if they find a cure for leukemia in four, it will shed a nasty new light on the story.