Mitt Romney Clarifies His Views on Religion And Government

Brent Rasmussen's picture

Mitt Romney appeared on Meet The Press with Tim Russert, and immediately Russert hammered him with the atheist/atheism question. Romney stumbled a bit, but managed not to wedge his foot too firmly in his mouth, I thought.

But what in the heck is this "common bond of humanity" he says that he shares with atheists? Is the Mittster a Humanist now? He's trying too hard. He seems to be trying to be all things to all people, and that's just a recipe for disaster.

Transcript below the fold...

[video] [transcript] MR. RUSSERT: "Freedom requires religion." Can you have freedom without organized religion?

GOV. ROMNEY: Well, I was paraphrasing and underlining, if you will, a quote that I’d just read from John Adams, who said that our constitutional form of government in this nation would require morality and freedom to be able to survive. And, of course, George Washington said virtually the same thing, that we were a nation that required a level of morality and religion in order to be a great nation and survive. And I think there’s truth to that, that the–that the great experiment of democracy, the experiment of America’s freedom has, as its basis, a sense of morality and a recognition that religious foundations are part of that, that morality.

And so I believe that long-term for America to remain a great nation and to lead the world, we must have a recognition of our religious base. Now, that’s, of course, not a particular denomination. But the, the founders of the nation, coming from different faiths and different persuasions, nonetheless all believed that the, the creator was an instrumental part of the founding of this nation. And I believe that that part of history should be taught, I believe that we should recognize the divine with everything from celebrations in the town square, with menorahs and nativity scenes, as well as in our history books, talking about the fact that the creators did believe in a fundamental sense of, of the divine. And, and recognizing that that gives us a moral code, a suggestion of what is right and wrong, that is–that is, in many respects, unique in the world.

We, we believe, as a nation, from the founding of this nation, that God gave the individual certain inalienable rights. That’s not a constitutional guarantee, that’s not a policy guarantee, it’s a guarantee from our creator. And, of course, the corollary is that, that if we’re all children of the same God, that we have a duty to one another, to care for one another, Americans first and the people of the world second. And, and finally, that freedom is something which is–which is of a, an eternal nature. And so all of these things, I think, are part of what makes America unique and part of what gives us confidence that freedom can ring forever in, in this–in this land.

MR. RUSSERT: But when you say freedom requires religion, can you be a moral person and be an atheist?

GOV. ROMNEY: Oh, oh, of course. Oh, of course.

MR. RUSSERT: And participate in freedom?

GOV. ROMNEY: Oh, of course. Yes, this…

MR. RUSSERT: So freedom doesn’t require religion?

GOV. ROMNEY: Well, this–the, the context was talking about the, the founding of the nation and the, the sense in this case of John Adams describing the fact that our constitutional form of government and this American experiment required morality, which in turn required religion. And, and yet, of course, on an individual basis, you have many individuals of great morality and–that, that don’t have any particular faith.

MR. RUSSERT: So if you determined that the most qualified person for the Supreme Court or for attorney general or secretary of education happened to be an atheist or an agnostic, that wouldn’t prevent you from appointing them?

GOV. ROMNEY: Of course not. You, you, you look at individuals based upon their skills and their ability, their values, their intelligence. And there are many who are agnostic or atheist or who have very different beliefs about the nature of the divine than I do, and, and you evaluate them based on their skills. But I, I can tell you that I, I myself am a person of faith and, and respect the, the sense of the common bond of humanity that comes from that, that fundamental belief.

MR. RUSSERT: But there’d be no litmus test?

GOV. ROMNEY: No, no. There’s no litmus test of, of that nature.

Except that there is. Romney makes that plain. For him, to be moral, you must be religious, and freedom requires religion. The fact there happen to be atheists that are moral doesn't really factor into it at all. He seems to think that these hypothetical moral, qualified atheists are interesting thought experiments - sort of a big "what if" game, but it doesn't strike me that he even really believes that that exist at all.

I get the distinct impression from him that he's one of those "atheists don't really exist" folks, and he seems to be honestly baffled as to why anyone is asking him this question about atheists and agnostics in the first place. You get the feeling that this is one aspect of spin that he and his handlers didn't consider until after the fact.

The fact is that atheists and other non-religious voters here in America out-number the minority Mormon faith many times over. In fact, folks who check "no religious preference" on their census forms, that is to say secular folks, make up the second-largest group of voters after the huge Christian block.

It always floored me that there wasn't more specific political wooing aimed at this very large slice of Americans.

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Nemo's picture

Me too

When I was in college, there were a couple of not-very-successful, young, foreign missionaries who hung out on the main drag. Most people just ignored them; some hurled insults. I went up to them and had a decent conversation... basically I was the only person being nice to them. But then I mentioned that I was an atheist. When I came back later, they told me "We decided that you were just kidding. You're too nice." Sigh.

Nowadays, of course, I mostly avoid this problem by being a sullen misanthrope.

More recently, my neighbors were talking about their vegetarianism, and I said that I admired their stance; even though I wasn't one myself, I considered it more moral. One of the kids said "It's got nothing to do with religion," as if that's what I'd said. Sigh. (So I replied "I said moral, not religious. Morality has nothing to do with religion," but there wasn't really any follow-up to that.)

On the other hand... at least one atheist blog commenter I know of makes the case that "morality" does indeed require religion, and that we should instead be using the term "ethics". I don't agree, but it's an interesting idea.

Kilgore Trout (didn't bother to login)'s picture

You're not really an atheist

Yeah I've heard that one before. I initially wasn't really sure how to respond. Then I realized it doesn't really matter how I respond this person isn't going to listen anyway. Too bad too, she was cute. But not nearly cute enough to overcome that comment.

Oh and Fuck Mitt Romney.

Bruce's picture

Talking out of both sides of his ass

So let me get this straight, according to Romney, you have to look at each person on an individual basis regardless of their faith yet you still need religion as a whole to survive as a country? So there is no litmus test for an individual, just for the entire country.

OK, got it.

Ky Atheist's picture

Atheists in the West Wing

Hitchens has said that Karl Rove is an atheist, so the primary criteria for serving in the Bush administration apparently is to be a whore for corporate interests willing to pander to the wingnuts for their votes, regardless of your personal religious persuasion.

Of course as social animals who depended on each other for survival, humans had morality long before religion was invented. Religion does, however, facilitate the performance of monstrous atrocities which are "good" when done in the name of God.

Jim Downey's picture

Run, Brent, run!

It always floored me that there wasn't more specific political wooing aimed at this very large slice of Americans.

Hell, Brent, run for office! It'd be nice to be able to vote for someone who didn't pander to the religious nuts for a change. :)

Jim Downey

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.

Brent Rasmussen's picture

My Fellow Americans

I promise a chicken in every pot, and a pound of ground puppy in every freezer!

Butch's picture

Damn. I’m at the office

Damn. I’m at the office and just yelled out “Fuck you!” To Romney via my computer monitor when I read “this American experiment required morality, which in turn required religion.”

Maybe my fundamentalist boss didn’t hear that…

Hank Fox's picture

Mitt

I get the distinct impression from him that he's one of those "atheists don't really exist" folks ...

Heh. I've met some of them. One of the most fabulous things I ever heard, after telling someone I was an atheist, was "Well, but you're such a good person. I think you must be a Christian without knowing it."

Yeah, and if a dog eats grass, it's really a horse.

The Doctor What's picture

Mitt

"Well, but you're such a good person. I think you must be a Christian without knowing it."

I'm sure you have that backwards! You seem like such a good person; I haven't seen you kill anyone, you must be atheist!

Ciao!

Jim Downey's picture

I don't know how many times . . .

"Well, but you're such a good person. I think you must be a Christian without knowing it."

By the Northern Gods, I don't know how many times I have heard that or some close approximation of it. Makes my teeth ache each and every time.

Jim Downey

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.

No More Mr. Nice Guy's picture

"But you're such a good person, you must be a christian!"

It really bugs the shit out of me when people use "christian" as a synonym for "moral" and "virtuous". It's so smug, self-satisfied and elitist, it gives me the creeps. Kinda like those bumper stickers that say "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

- No More Mr. Nice Guy!

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