Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Thought Police
The Christian Taliban are at it again. Yesterday, there was a protest held in front of ESPN headquarters in Bristol, Connecticut. The kooks are upset over Dana Jacobson's jokes at a roast and anchor Chris Berman's use of the words "Jesus Christ" and "goddamn" in the workplace.
The Christian Defense Coalition accuses ESPN of having a "lack of sensitivity to persons of faith and a culture of religious intolerance." Un-freakin-believable. They want to sensor my speech now?
The latest attempt to drum up outrage centers around another video, of course. It's a video of Chris Berman going ballistic over incompetent co-workers in the studio. An important thing to note is that this is not part of a broadcast. It's a video of what happened before a show actually started. Berman might be a bit of jerk, but in all fairness, we don't know the circumstances and this is besides the point.
Could. Go. All. In. Sane.
Okay, maybe Berman's head exploded a little but I'm still a big fan of his and I've probably done the same thing a few times. If Berman's temper caused any problems, that is between him, his co-workers and ESPN. It's nobody else's business. But when has that ever stopped fundies?
The Christian Defense Coalition will be calling on ESPN to take three positive steps toward building a culture of religious tolerance in their workplace:
*Discipline or terminate any employee that uses religiously intolerant and hateful language such as "Goddamn" or the negative use of "Jesus Christ" in the workplace.
*Sponsor a workplace seminar and dialogue on religious tolerance and discrimination in the workplace. ESPN has held similar seminars on race and gender but never on religion.
*Host a discussion on one of their programs featuring the topic of the offensive use of "Goddamn" and "Jesus Christ" within the sports world.
Shall we just throw out the Constitution now? These people will never be happy until all of us are forced to bow down to their god just like in Saudi Arabia. Watch out, I'm drawing a cartoon of Jesus with a football on his head right now. Blasphemy!
Corporate America must begin to understand that terms like 'Goddamn' and the negative use of 'Jesus Christ' in the workplace are no different than using expressions like 'faggot' or 'nigger' in the workplace.
Oh-my-nonexistent-god! They can't be serious? It's the same as using the "N" word? Or saying "faggot" like Ann Coulter?
No it's not. I don't make disparaging remarks or act disrespectfully towards black people because they are human beings just like I am. No one gets to pick their skin color. And the same with gay people. They don't get to choose. Religion is an idea and a choice. Christianity is a specific cult that happens to be very intolerant of non-Christians or gays or other religions. It's not the same in any way, shape or form. To cry bigotry, is to diminish and make a joke of true bigotry. This is absolutely shameful.
To me, the video is just funny. What a primadonna. Kinda reminds me of the infamous Casey Kasem meltdown about dogs dying. Okay, not that bad, but still...
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I'm reminded of a quote by C.S. Lewis
though I'm darned if I can recall what book - perhaps Letters to an American Woman;
"I simply abhor 'sensitive' people, don't you?"
richg
First of all, employment standards have nothing to do with First Amendment rights to call whatever cockamaime bullshit I encounter cockamamie bullshit. Second, you godiots are always saying that atheism IS a religion, so why don't you practice what you preach and not criticize atheists?
Cockamamie BS - On your own time.
Sure, I agree that on your own time, you can call it whatever cockamamie BS you wish.
I seem to remember a court case, possibly US Supreme, but I'll have to check that. But according to some sources:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices. (from Dictionary.Com)
So "Atheism" can fall under the "fundamental set of beliefs" clause and may be considered a religion for the purposes of non-discrimination.
No one that I know has a fundamental problem with giving or receiving criticism - only with verbally abusive insults that demean the person's value as a human being.
"I believe in preaching to the converted; for I have generally found that the converted do not understand their own religion." -G.K. Chesterton
Uh.. Yes, it is.
The typical non-discrimination statement reads:
"regardless of race, creed, color, or national origin"
Look up "Creed". Then tell me the difference.
"I believe in preaching to the converted; for I have generally found that the converted do not understand their own religion." -G.K. Chesterton
The typical non-discrim statement is empty-headed
Show me your god and I'll consider not saying pejorative things about him. Otherwise, get in line. I can go out into the lab right now and see actual people and know not to say pejorative things about them.
Your god is an idea, and ideas are weakened by "protection".
F-Xenu
So, words that you consider blasphemy now constitute discrimination? Oh please. That's crazy talk.
And I bet you are a hypocrite too. I am certain you wouldn't bat an eye if someone made a pejorative comment about one of the Hindu gods or Allah or Zeus. Did you read Janine's post? Are you calling for special rights for Christians or are you actually suggesting that no one can say anything that another religion might find offensive? I don't think you've thought this through.
Can you imagine a guy from Tom Cruise's congregation bringing a discrimination suit against an employer because the employer made fun of the Galctic Overlord Xenu?
An Answer
I was responding specifically to your statement:
So now I'll take it in small bites...
Generally employers that have policies in place defining "hate speech" include religion with race, gender and the rest. So if saying something offensively derogatory about someone's race or gender is considered discrimination, than the same is true about their religion. And that is not MY definition.
Yeah, like you've already seen me do here. I may try to refute them, but that is a far cry from abusively insulting them or their followers.
Yes. And I'm not talking about "insensitive" whatever that is supposed to mean. I'm talking about deliberately and abusively insulting. With this, I'd agree with her.
No. As I wrote above, there is a big difference between simply offensive and abusively insulting (unless one is a Muslim - then ANYTHING against Allah is considered offensively insulting). All I would advocate is that if someone gets fired for telling an off-color racial joke on his own time, then the same should be true for someone who similarly insults a Jew or a Christian.
I am specifically NOT for restricting anyone's freedom to say what they think, but if the company policy says "speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation." then you cannot 'cherry-pick' your favorite issue either for more or less protection than the others.
How, by calling him a gay darkie polak? That could be fun - pitting race, national origin and sexual orientation against religion in the same suit.
"I believe in preaching to the converted; for I have generally found that the converted do not understand their own religion." -G.K. Chesterton
Rich- You are sidestepping
Rich-
You are sidestepping my concerns.
I wasn't talking about hate speech, unless you consider the words Berman used hate speech. Did Berman use hate speech in your mind? By saying "fix the Goddamn thing" or if someone says "Jesus Christ" when frustrated, is that by your definition, discrimination against Christians?
The answer is clearly no. It's not hate speech or discrimination. It fits the definition of blasphemy. Can you see the difference between the two?
I was specifically talking about the Berman situation that's why I posted the video. Are we now talking about something different? It would be helpful if you gave an example so I could judge objectively if it indeed constituted hate speech or workplace discrimination. The Berman example was clearly not.
I notice you singled out Muslims as being particularly sensitive. Don't you see that the Christian Defense Coalition is acting EXACTLY like the Muslims who pitch a fit about a Mohammed-Bomb cartoon? The Christian group is protesting ESPN because they didn't punish Berman for blasphemy. That's just as outrageous as the cartoon incident. Can't you see that?
Again, I disagree. If some jackass wants to make racial jokes on his own time, I will call them a bigot, but they should not be fired. If they made those racial jokes at work, yes they should be fired. Ann Coulter is vile human being, but she has a right to freedom of speech just the same as any other citizen. If CPAC wants to fire her, that's their business. In case you were wondering, CPAC (Conservative Political Action Committee) had her speak again this year despite the "faggot" comment last year. Gotta love the GOP. Proud bigots, they are!
The woman who said F-Jesus at the roast was suspended for a week. I think that was appropriate because it was a ESPN sponsored event. But that is different from Berman's case. Berman's words might be offensive to people like you, but that doesn't mean you have the right not to be offended. No such right exists. We value free speech in this country. If we outlawed speech that Christians find offensive, we will have to do the same with all religions. Is that what you want? Or just special rights for Christians?
As to insulting Jews and Christians, this is where it gets complicated. I feel that insulting a Jew is bigotry, because that is a race. Insulting the Jewish religion is fine because it's an idea. Insulting Christians is always okay because again, it's just an idea. If you wish to stifle insults against an idea, you cannot say that you support free speech. Period!
I don't know what to do with this. Maybe you think you are being funny? I don't think it's funny. Maybe you and Coulter share the same sense of humor?
Actually I agree with much of what you wrote...
But like I said, I was responding to only one original point, not the whole thing.
I was letting the Berman part slide, because I, too think the reaction from some of the right was over the top.
Only if you equate a worldwide fatwa calling for the execution of the cartoonists "EXACTLY like" protesting ESPN.
We are in agreement here.
Again we agree.
You are right - this is a bit more complicated. But I see a difference between criticizing people's ideas and verbally abusing people for holding those ideas.
I threw that in to try to illustrate a point. The very fact that you *didn't* find it funny shows that you may be taking this thing too seriously - too seriously to see the absurd. Let's lighten up a little and have a laugh at the absurd rather than trying to beat the shit out of it.
"I believe in preaching to the converted; for I have generally found that the converted do not understand their own religion." -G.K. Chesterton
Given the Hubbardites . . .
...easily.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
When I read about situations
When I read about situations like this, where some christian rights groups calls for being "sensitive" towards the feelings of the religious, there only one thing I want. I want them to go all the way. There is to be no "insensitive" talk about any religion or any deity. What is good for one religion is good for all religions. We must respect all believes and do no action that could insult any believer. Or they could be honest and say they demand special rights for christian. Which is it?
godiots
Hey, "Christian Defense Coalition," jesus christ can suck my goddamn cock.
Why not....
Hey, they want to tell you what position you can use to fuck your wife, in your own bedroom, whats a little messianic ranting?
That video was the funniest
That video was the funniest goddamn thing I’ve seen in a week. I mean, Jesus Christ was that hilarious.
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