Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
John Shore Takes On The Tough Atheist Questions
John Shore is a Christian writer and apologist whose folksy-language approach to apologetics, and his focus on talking to unbelievers makes him a very likable guy.
In other words, I can see myself hanging out with and having a beer with John. I like reading his stuff, but I still think he's dead wrong. Heh.
There's some interesting conversations going on over at John's blog about the Christian theological concept of Atonement, and whether or not the Christian God is gaming the system that He Himself created - and why exactly? Fun stuff. Check it out and contribute if you get a chance.
- An Atheist Asks: Why Did Christ Have to Sacrifice Himself to Himself?
- Inquiring Atheists Want to Know: What, Exactly, Was the Sacrifice Jesus Made?
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But I WAS telling the truth!
I went to the god flogging blog and left this:
"I don't believe it.
Sincerely."
Think they'll get it?
as many questions as answers
Im still reading through the comments, but one can't argue with
You do come up with as many questions as answers. In the book of Job for instance, that book on the 'problem of evil', after Job accuses God of killing his kids and demands answers, God doesnt answer him and we're still wrestling with the problem to this day. I guess theists just trust that their questions will be answered someday. I certainly dont make the claim that I know the answers.
Anyway, to the question of Christ's sacrifice, the Eastern Orthodox seem to believe that it is not Christ's death that saved the world, but his very conception, that is, his being alive. His death therefore is incidental. It's what the world does to people like him. Speak out against the powers-that-be and youre courting trouble. (I also read a book by a universalist Christian that said the same thing.) I can see why his incarnation would be a sacrifice. I mean from son of God to a lowly carpenter in foreign occupied territory is quite a fall in status. ;-)
Nuh uh Jeg
A fall in status? Have you seen how much carpenters charge? Would you want to irritate the person constructing your house? But that aside we may look at the life and 'sacrifice' of Jesus (accepting the story on its own terms) thusly -
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
Thirty years of biological functions (except for sexual function I guess), telling some parables, giving some speeches and hanging out with undesirables (Mary Magdelene exempted of course, she was hot).
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER
Now then. Sacrifice? Meh. A small one at best and very, very temporary. So Jesus slummed with the humans for thirty years and then went back to heaven. I am not impressed with this 'sacrifice'. Jesus most certainly didn't 'die' for my sins since Christians still talk to him like he is alive. Perhaps 'experienced death' would be a little closer to the actual case, and you know maybe Jesus experienced death because he was curious how it felt. No need to drag me or my sins (whatever one might suppose them to be) into the picture. Thanks for stopping by Jesus, bring some efficient solar energy and a compelling desire for a sustainable world next time you come.
Un-Intelligent Design
No kidding. If only there were some sort of intelligent design.
You know you didnt need
You know you didnt need multiple lines of EONS OF INCREDIBLE COSMIC POWER. One wouldve been enough. :-)
(Not just carpenters. Im not rude to waiters and cooks either.)
Yeah I know
I just wanted to emphasize that according to (most) Christians, Christ had been there with God at the beginning (13.7 billion years ago give or take) and had been doing He knows what for all that pre-incarnation time. Really there should have only been one Eon... etc afterward, (and in minuscule print), since it has only been two millenia, which aint much stacked against billions of years.
Judge, to the charge of over-dramatization I hereby plead guilty.
Next case...
I am always nice to the waitresses since my mother was one. I don't go to restaurants where you can see the cooks so my interactions with them are strictly one way. I just hope I don't eat when they are having a bad day.
Yup
And a commenter on the post brought up the "sacrifice" part. The poster certainly wasn't answering MY question. Jesus had a bad weekend and then went to heaven. Big friggin sacrifice.
I MIGHT be more impressed if Jesus went to hell for eternal torment for my sins.
Christianity is a tough enough sell w/out Jesus hanging out in Heaven.
Classic Brent
It was worth reading through all of those comments just for this one quip of yours...
Absolutely priceless Brent. Too funny.
Kissin' up to the boss.
Yeah, I must agree - John does seem like a decent sort, but I was completely unimpressed by his 'explanations', and the general quality of comment by the believers left a lot to be desired. Brent's posts (and the fellow by the handle of Morse) stood out in their clarity of thought. John's additional responses in the comments were good, but they were generally telling the other believers to chill. Otherwise - meh, not too impressed.
Jim Downey
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