Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Atheist Statistics 2008
These stats really don't come as a surprise to me.
Bookmark/Search this post with:
Had it ever occured to any
Had it ever occured to any of the Skeptics here to actulaly look at the numbers?
Really, when I hear people who are Atheists tell me how Skeptical they are, and how they never beleive anything without evidence, I can't take them seriously anu more, and htis illustrates why.
The Divorce Stats used int eh video can be foudnonline on a lot of Athist websites, so can infamous Prison Statistics, and the "Science" stats, but they are lalgy bogus.
For one thing, the National Acadamy of Sciences doenst represent all Scientists. besides, if you read the report, it actually doens't say the majority are Atheists. THis thing lumps in Agnostics, and deists, and even those who beleive in some sort of god just not a personal one.
That is highly deceptive and gives a false picture of events.
The Divorce stat is worse, since it fails to look at several key factors. Oen of which s the fact that Atheists are the highest percentage pf peopel likely to never marry, and simply cohabitate. If they never married, they cna't get divroced.
Worse still, the "Huge" divergence between Atheist and the General Christian population is nly 3%, 24% for Atheists and 27% for CHristians. Thats even within the 5% margion for error. If they redid the poll the numbers could easily reverse themselves. The figures are too close to really be that signifigant.
In fact, if it had been the other way roudn we'd see peopel arguign that the Athiest Divorce Rate is no different!
Its even worse when you consider that the lowest divorce rats belong to spacific Chrisyian groups, if you do them by Denomination. Cahtolics, Anglicans, and Lutherans have the lowest overall Divorce Rates at around 21%.
THe Prison Stats are just fiction and you can visit Adherants.Com to see why.
Just because you saw it in a Youtube VIdeo or read soem stat online doens't make it true.
Use Critical Thinking and try to test the claims. You know, like you lot claim tyou do for everything.
Blind beleif in these numbers because htey make you feel good doesn't really work.
Commenting
Statistics borne out by multiple studies show that people who comment on posts more than 10 months after they originally appeared are 40 percent more likely to be clueless wankers.
So we can agree that there's
So we can agree that there's a corrolation between safety, prosperity, health, etc. and atheism in countries. But what I'm curious about is causation, if any. Because if atheism causes those things, shouldn't atheists be out there promoting it? But if prosperity causes atheism, then one has to ask what causes prosperity. Are nations that have gone onto be prosperous from a religious history? Can religion serve as a crutch for nations? Do atheists divorce less often because they're more harmonious? Or is is because harmonious people are more likely to be atheist? You get the point...the statistics are interesting, but for anyone grappling with pragmatic public policy questions, they bring up more questions than answers.
Easy Answer
I could be wrong about it, but ...
The answer is one of those no-brainers that makes instant sense when you think of it. It's just this: Religion causes people to engage in "magical thinking." Which means, non-rational, hopeful-without-basis, careless, willing to ignore facts, reliance on authoritarian pronouncements rather than the conclusions of their own independent mind, all sorts of things like that.
It doesn't happen in every person, but on a statistical basis a slightly toxic style of thinking permeates the community of the religious and has real effects.
It isn't about harmony or prosperity, it's about openness and rationality.
Compare someone who gambles frequently (magical thinking) or buys lottery tickets with someone who has consciously decided not to gamble or buy lottery tickets, and instead to work for what he makes ... chances are that second person has his eyes open about what creates income. Is money more about hard work, or more about luck?
Compare someone who leaps blindly into relationships over and over (magical thinking) with someone who learns from mistakes and chooses not to get involved with the same/wrong type of woman/man. Who is more likely to have a successful marriage at some point? Is a successful relationship more about your astrological sign, or is it about real shared values and interests?
Compare someone with a purple bump in the side of his face, thinking it's nothing and it will just go away (magical thinking), to someone who goes to a dermatologist immediately to get it checked out. Which is likely to be healthier and live longer?
The real cause of all these things -- atheism as well as statistically favorable measures of health, and marital and financial success -- is this deeper one. Reason rather than magical thinking.
Atheism is just ONE of the results of a cause -- an adult manner of thinking -- that has lots of positive effects.
...
If this is true (I'm sure it is, of course), and if you really think about it, there's an ugly question that pops up: How much better could things be if a MAJORITY of us were reasoners rather than magical thinkers?
We have never yet lived in a world where this question had an answer.
Be careful when you
Be careful when you generalize atheist. As brent is fond of saying, atheist is just lack of god belief. Not all atheist are rational thinkers. I could classify my dog as an atheist, as far as i can tell, he has no belief in god. He appears to believe in food only, but i have no confirming evidence as he has yet to aver his preferences. I would classify myself as a "cognizant athiest" as i have thought it through and chose the classification athiest as the most rational option. If that is what you mean by athiest, then you may be forming an argument. Again, we would have to do a clinical study and process the data. Otherwise, we are just conjecturing.
greg
"although we must remain strictly agnostic about the existance of celestial tea pots......"
Problem with prison statistics
I'm so sad, because I thought I'd posted this last night but apparently forgot to hit the "post" button after hitting the "preview" button. Damn, damn, damn.
Anyway, I've always wondered just how useful the prison statistics are comparing believers (especially Christians) to non-believers. We all know that when people are in trouble and want to reform their image, the most common thing for them to do is publicly declare that they've "found God" or turned their lives over to Jesus, or some such nonsense. So isn't it likely that the great gap between Atheists and agnostics in society versus their representation in prison is at least in part due to some of them "gaming the system?"
Almost all prisons have some kind of "get straight" program, either subtly or defiantly religious in nature (again, mainly Christian, at least in the South), where inmates can get some time off from their sentences by completing the program. Or maybe they know they will have a better chance at their next parole hearing if they make a big, public show of their new-found Christian identity for a few months.
If I was in prison and knew it could make the difference between getting out in 5 years or getting out in 5 months, I'd carry a Bible with me everywhere, lead prayer groups in the dining area, and carve crosses in the foreheads of those dirty, godless Atheists (just kidding about the last part.) I would be counted as a Christian in prison because I'd lie my ass off in order to get out sooner.
Is any of that taken into account when the statistics are calculated?
As for the divorce statistic, I actually know Christians who spin it as "Christians only make up 27% of divorces; non-Christians make up 73%!"
Rob Miles
--
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.
Perhaps one explaination for the divorce statistics
Actually, one idea --
Could the divorce statistics be different because the religious people are rushing into early marriages, where the atheists and agnostics are just living together? That way, if two early relationships break up, only the religious one counts as a divorce.
Not that this really changes anything, b/c the religious aren't supposed to be rushing into marriage.
Duke
Marriage Stats
I remember that somebody had as a presentation in my speech class about living together before marriage and living together when the marriage starts. Living together before marriage to "try it out" is actually worse for marrital relationships. I'm sorry that I can't site my sources.
*Cite
*Cite
That's an interesting idea.
That's an interesting idea. I just took the numbers at face value and came to the conclusion that atheists/agnostics are less likely to split up. But I feel like I have a different attitude towards marriage than most theists.
1) I don't think marriage is necessarily a forever decision. It can be, but its definitely a day by day thing. Which means that I know that if I don't give my marriage the attentiveness that it needs, it won't last, so I make sure that I do.
2) I wasn't looking for a "soulmate" picked for me by God when I got married. I just wanted someone to share my life with, not define myself by another person. I do a pretty good job of standing on my own two feet - I don't need someone to hold me up.
I've always thought that theists put way too much importance on marriage and expected too much synchrony. All that conformation to someone else would be way too much pressure for me, and I'd run the other way.
Marriage
I think you've stated what's really behind the difference, without saying it explicitly: atheists are prone to be more reality-based in their thinking. That has to translate into advantages in a LOT of areas of life.
I'd bet if you could know the numbers, atheists are also statistically less likely to drive dangerously, less likely to use drugs or alcohol or tobacco, more likely to have savings and health insurance, more likely to exercise, and probably even better at getting their bills paid on time.
And then there's the deeper, more satisfying orgasms, and the greater penis length.
Ok, the better sex, no drugs
Ok, the better sex, no drugs and alcohol, savings and insurance, exercise.....all that would apply to my life. But I had a hell of a lot of fun in my little miata!!!!! And safety wasn't my first concern. ;-)
That's why . . .
That's why I signed up.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read *or listen to* my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
I'm surprised the numbers
I'm surprised the numbers are as high as they are. From my perspective, almost everyone outside the science community (and many within it) are devoted to their belief in a deity.