Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Secularism in unexpected places.
I was poking around one of my regular gun-board haunts, and saw a thread about a news report on the BBC about how us gun-crazed Americans are actually more tranquil and civil than might be expected - moreso than British society. Since, as I've noted here recently, I enjoy the UK, I thought I'd check it out.
The discussion was about what I expected, right up until someone started spouting . . . well, here's what the guy said:
First they gave up their guns, then they gave up their God. No Jesus, no peace, know Jesus, know peace.
*sigh* I almost stopped reading the thread at that point. This site is pretty good about not painting all "liberals" as evil gun-grabbers (one of the reasons I do go there), and in fact there's a healthy percentage of 'progressives' of several flavors who actively participate in the political discussions - and it stays pretty civil. But Sky-Daddy talk? I just expect it to be accepted by the majority.
I was, however, surprised otherwise. Shortly after that fellow's comment, several others chimed in to tell him to take his Jeebus talk elsewhere. Here's one:
Don’t go there. You’re not the only ones with morals. Is it more righteous to live a moral life because you’re a coward and fear Hell, or to live a righteous life because you feel it is the right thing to do? Pharisees need an external moral compass because they lack an internal moral compass. I realize you can’t understand that. You really don’t want to have this discussion. It will not be like preaching to the choir, and the moderators will not let it continue. I wish they would close threads like this as soon as your kind starts condescending.
Wow. I couldn't have said it better, myself. And that wasn't the only one.
Interesting. Got me thinking - where has an active secularism popped up in an unexpected place for you?
Jim Downey
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Unexpected secularism in the young
I'm not sure if it's unusual or simply reflects a higher amount of secularism amongst younger generations
Well the younger generations certainly are becoming more secular. That's a trend that Americans, brought up with the idea that America is and will always be a bastion of religiosity, haven't been expecting.
I've argued gun control with some British friends, and I'm amazed at how deeply they've drunk of the Koolaid. It's not a religious/secular thing, it's an American/European thing.
Good post.
Good post there, Duck. Yeah, I've discussed those attitudes a lot with folks in the UK, usually when I've been there, and discovered that while a lot of them *really* don't get our attitudes, they are increasingly uneasy about the trends in their own country and its courts.
Jim Downey
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Like Science Fiction? Read *or listen to* my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
Thanks for posting that, Jim
Thanks for posting that, Jim, that was very refreshing and indeed something you wouldn't necessarily expect in that forum.
If anything, Religion seems to be making a comeback in the UK, regrettably.
That and their ultra-restrictive gun laws are still batshit insane, punishing the victims. Regarding your BBC story, it sort of fits in with what I've studied wherein gun control advocates will tout that "gun crime" is indeed down, but critics like the NRA and others point out that VIOLENT crime has show a net INCREASE since the bans were enacted. That and Britons who shoot criminals in self defense are many times more likely to face prosecution (and civil suits) themselves than Americans in nearly exactly similar circumstances, where police are often able to determine cases of legitimate self defense / justifiable homicide and no charges are filed.
In Britain, they live in Bizzaro world, with middle aged farmers getting railroaded for turning a shotgun on a burglar who turns out to be some youthful thug, who himself just gets a slap on the wrist.
It's got crap all to do with religion/Gawd-belief, etc.
Yes, gun laws in Britain were more liberal in Victorian
times, in an era of "God, Queen, and Country" and the "Sun never sets on the British Empire", etc.
Discrimination in British gun laws used to be partly religion-based; e.g. aimed against Catholics in General, and later on against Irishmen in particular, and against Scottish Highlanders (also once strongly Catholic, in contrast to Lowland Scots, who are/were mostly Presbyterian).
Britain is a basket case these days as regards personal liberty, in some ways even worse than the U.S.; That whole "unwritten" constitution thing is pretty problematic. The powers that be may ignore our written one, but at least it still stands there in print to rebuke them.
Games
I'm not sure if it's unusual or simply reflects a higher amount of secularism amongst younger generations, but I've noticed a lot of secular people popping up in video game forums. There's also a really high tolerance for stuff that the religious right would see as scandalous; such as the plot of Final Fantasy 10, in which a group of people (the Al Bhed) were demonized by the major religion for building machines, believing in the power of science and disbelieving in things like gods and spirits. It then turns out that the people who were running the church were actually really corrupt (and undead, despite the fact that their religion held the sacred duty of sending souls to the other side so they wouldn't turn into man-eating monsters) people who were using the people's faith in them to control them. We then find out that the "god" of this religion (really a human "savior" figure who has become like a god) is a conniving little bitch who is feeding the people false hope so that they will continue to repeat a cycle in which at least two people must be sacrificed every ten years to seal a recurring monster. Of course, that's not the only game in which the church and whatever/whichever god there is are portrayed in a less than flattering light.
Japanese televangelists
Yeah, ideas like that pop up more in Japanese media. Video games, anime, manga, etc. can slip these sorts of ideas under radar of censorious Westerners.
I have to wonder though, if the kids like it because of the ideas or just because anything Japanese is seen as cool.
(Offtopic, really: I remember watching Gantz and one of the characters was introduced as a televangelist. My immediate revulsion quickly gave way to laughter as I remembered I was watching anime. He was a televangelist all right. A Buddhist televangelist! I still laugh about it.)
--
"Ponies are atheists, you know, technically."
- Me
Less than flattering light
Given the frequent fictional appearances of the Mad Scientist, maybe it's only fair to give the Mad Religionists equal time.
"The Pope looked down at the half-million witless fools filling St. Peter's Square, and failed to restrain a chuckle as the deadly Rapture Gas began to flow from vents scattered throughout the crowd. By the time the screaming started, he was shrieking with mad laughter."
Hank . . .
. . . you made my wife cackle loudly with that.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read *or listen to* my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
an internal moral compass
I don't have an example of being surprised by secularism, but this quote is pure gold:
"Is it more righteous to live a moral life because you’re a coward and fear Hell, or to live a righteous life because you feel it is the right thing to do? Pharisees need an external moral compass because they lack an internal moral compass."
That's great stuff, and it would make an excellent t-shirt or poster!
lots of unexpected secularism
I have seen secularism appear on internet forums including local news, computer, photography, horror films, high-definition DVD players, and others I can't remember right now. It surprises me each time, but I'm always happy to see it.
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