Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
"Jesus made me puke."
Nah, not me. That's the title of a new Rolling Stone article by Matt Taibbi.
Taibbi went 'undercover' to attend an Encounter Weekend at John Hagee's Cornerstone Church in Texas. Hagee, you may recall, has been recently in the news for being batshitinsane, and oh yeah - for endorsing John McCain for president.
And Taibbi is not being metaphorical or ironic in his title. He is referring to the culmination of the Encounter Weekend, where:
The hooting and howling went on seemingly forever. It was nearly an hour and a half before Fortenberry was done. He had cast out the demons of every ailment, crime, domestic problem and intellectual discipline on the face of the Earth. He cast out horoscopes, false gods, witches, intellectual pride, nearsightedness, everything, it seemed to me, except maybe E. coli and John Updike novels. At least four of the men and about six of the women writhed and screamed and fussed themselves into sheer physical exhaustion, collapsing in chairs by the time it was over. Several of the coaches actually had to bring Wayne Williams and the other young black man behind the chapel to subdue their demons. By then most of us men were just sitting there mute, looking around absent-mindedly, waiting for it to end. I was sitting there, clutching my demon vomit bag — perhaps the single greatest souvenir of my journalistic career — when I made the mistake of closing my mouth. A coach rushed over to me.
"Matthew!" he snapped. "Keep your mouth open! Let the demons out!"
Indeed.
It's a long piece, but worth reading. Not because of the insight into one particular crazed church and their cult-like techniques, but because of this:
Afterward, a frightening thought shot through my head. It occurred to me that over the past decades, any number of our prominent political leaders (from Jimmy Carter to Chuck Colson to W himself) had boasted publicly of their born-again experiences, broadcasting to Middle America an understanding of their personal relationships with God. But whereas once these conversions were humble things — Billy Graham whispering and putting his hand on W's shoulder in Kennebunkport, or even (in the case of Tom DeLay) a flash of recognition while watching a televangelist program — the modern version might very easily be this completely batshit holy-vomitus/demon-exorcism deal. The thought that any politician could claim this kind of experience and not be immediately disqualified from public service seemed utterly terrifying.
A terror a number of us have lived with for some time.
Jim Downey
(Via MeFi.)
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Didn't need to read the WHOLE article
I started to read the article, and it became pretty clear that the "Encounter" was a Christianized Robert Bly (Iron John) thing.
I have been a Baptist-Lutheran-Pentecostal (and still am), but I can see that for much of Christian history (especially recent American) people have been adopting and adapting social trends about 20 years behind the times, and then "discovering" them in the Bible. Almost makes me wish there were an Orthodox church around here. At least they are not so easily swayed by the current fads.
"I believe in preaching to the converted; for I have generally found that the converted do not understand their own religion." -G.K. Chesterton
Jesus Made me Puke
Just wanted to point out that Jesus did not make him puke--John Haggee and his followers made him puke. After reading the entire article, I am almost certain that this entire encounter weekend and the things that were being done in the "name of Jesus" would have made Jesus puke, as well.
Start Page for Matt Taibbi
Taibbi is great for any gonzo addicts needing a fix, here's Matt Taibbi start page for more info.. http://www.odysen.com/pages/18460.
Hoooo boy...
Man, reading that really brought out a flood of embarrassment for me. The sessions that I went to weren't quite that wacky, but not off by a hell of a lot!
Looking back, I wonder how the hell I fell into such ridiculousness, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that my pastor(s) were always concerned because I never was able to "fully participate" and seemed to "hold back" from really "giving myself" over to such behavior.
I guess I was never quite insane enough... Perhaps Ray Comfort was right and I really was a "false convert"! Now I feel slightly less embarrassed!
Jesus Made Me Puke
"the modern version might very easily be this completely batshit holy-vomitus/demon-exorcism deal. "
If by modern version you mean slightly <60 yrs old, the answer is yes - it's just as crazy now as then. I spent my first 18 yrs of life trapped in that filth, and I can say with authority nothing is different now other than the names and locations.
I just finished reading it, and I was right
Hagee is a pentecostal. That explains the vomit inducing exorcism nonsense. I know it probably doesn't make much difference to some of you, who lump all religious believers into one broad category, but there is a huge difference between a fundamentalist and a pentecostal. On the batshit insanity scale, they are next door neighbors, but don't ever make the mistake of confusing the two in front of either one. Also, Tiabbi makes the even more erroneous mistake of calling them evangelicals.
Aside from that, it was an interesting read and did bring back some not so pleasant memories of sequestered Christian retreats in remote areas without access to copious amounts of alcohol.
Todd says, "I know it
Todd says, "I know it probably doesn't make much difference to some of you, who lump all religious believers into one broad category, but there is a huge difference between a fundamentalist and a pentecostal. On the batshit insanity scale, they are next door neighbors, but don't ever make the mistake of confusing the two in front of either one."
I find that confusing and, perhaps, dishonest. At the very least, Todd is using a different dictionary than I am. I speak as former Pentecostal. I generally say I am a "former fundie" w/o always going into detail as to which branch of fundamentalism. But no way is there a "huge difference" between a fundamentalist and a pentecostal"!
Pentacostals and Baptists
Ok, so maybe you can't tell by looking at me (my skin is white and I have blond hair and blue eyes), but my great-grandmother survived the Trail of Tears. When she was young, she was forced to attend a Pentecostal church as part of the assimilation process that was the goal of Indian reservations. Well, my grandmother was raised attending Pentecostal churches too, but when she had her own kids she decided they needed religion, but made it clear that they were NOT to hang out with Pentecostals - "Those people are crazy!" Grandma was adamant that they attend Baptist churches instead. So, my aunts and uncles are all baptists and I don't think they have a clue why.
Anyway, Todd, I just had to point out that I understand the difference.
Vomit inducing exorcisms are not typical
Hagee and his congregation are totally batshit insane. Most evangelicals and even a sizable number of fundamentalists would probably agree with Tiabbi's assessment of batshit insanity. My background is fundamentalist, and as loony as some of my former beliefs were, I don't recall ever participating in vomit inducing exorcisms. Of course, I've been free of batshit insanity for 25+ years now, so maybe this is more common than when I was still a believer. However, I still have enough tangential connections to fundamentalism that I highly doubt it.
From a fundamentalist perspective, the doctrine that Christians can be demon possessed is fairly recent and still somewhat controversial. The old Moody and DTS preachers of old would probably consider John Hagee and his congregation borderline pentecostal apostates.
Hilarious
Warning - don't read this at work! You'll be laughing so hard people will come around wondering what's up. Too bad this story is real and not set in some alternate reality.
Interesting read
The Pollyanna part of me (it's very, very small) wants to believe that the majority of the people Matt described wound up coming out of the thing just like him, though. Knowing they were putting on a show, getting into it on an outward level, but deep down just thinking about baseball or something.
Obviously some people take it to heart, but I'd bet the majority have an "awesome weekend", but that's about the extent of it.
Rob Miles
--
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.
I love Matt Taibbi. He's one
I love Matt Taibbi. He's one of the best things about Rolling Stone, and his appearances on Bill Maher's show are always entertaining. His account of his experiences at the Enounter Weekend would be hilarious if what it reveals weren't also mind-bogglingly scary....and, yeah, a little puke-inducing. Makes me despair of the human race even more than I already, y'know, do.
Thanks Jim
Jim,
Thanks for the article. See, we do read your stuff. Keep up the good work guys.
Scott
Is that you, Scott?
Are you the same Scott Mange that had his letter to the editor (about "Expelled") in today's paper? Because I'm the same Rob Miles that did too.
Small world, huh? (That is, if you are the same Scott Mange. If you aren't, never mind.)
Rob Miles
--
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.
That's me..
Rob,
How funny. I actually recognized your name and was about to write you after looking you up on Roanoke.com before checking my own post. Anyway, it's me. We should get together some time. You a homebrew kind of guy? I've got some red Chianti that needs to be drunk. Haven't had time to make beer of late. Try me at scott.mange at yahoo.com
Red chi...an...ti?
That's, like, wine, right?
Rob Miles
--
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.
Now, that would be . . .
. . . just weird. Even if it isn't the same Scott, the coincidence is pretty wild.
Jim Downey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Science Fiction? Read *or listen to* my novel, Communion of Dreams, for free.
Nah, not weird.... I've
Nah, not weird.... I've decided that there's a certain group of people on this planet that always wind up in the same places and interested in the same things. A sort of soul mate cluster. I know, its a crazy idea for someone who doesn't entertain the notion of a soul, but there you go.... I've just had too many "coincidences" of this sort in my life. I'm starting to find comfort in it. ;-)
And chianti? That's the best red wine out there!
They must be in the same
They must be in the same Karass.
If you don't get the reference, read Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle. There are a few seemingly woo-woo ideas in it and a bit of god-talk, but enjoying the book doesn't require any belief in them.
hehe
As my name might suggest I'm something of a Vonnegut fan myself.
Sure Cat's Cradle talks woo-woo at times, but it also says that the whole religion is a lie, it's just a lie that makes people feel better. It's true of all religions, but the one Vonnegut invented is the only one that admits it.
If I was going to follow a religion it would probably be Bokononism for its honestly, or The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for its customs.
Not To Mention...
...the beer volcanoes and the stripper factories.
You want to know what's weird...
I once dated this girl and as we got to know each other, she told me about her last boyfriend. I jokingly asked during a pause if this was the guy with just one leg?
She was dumbfounded. It turns out he did have only one leg and of course she hadn't told me.
Before anyone reads too much into this, no, we didn't get married or anything AND given enough random encounters, strange results like this are bound to result. It's exactly what you expect if the world is random. A lack of coincidences would be a sign of some directing intelligence.