Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Noah's Ark Found!
Again!
Link--DALLAS CBS 11 has news of what could turn out to be one of the biggest discoveries in the history of both archaeology, and Christianity. A group of men, including several north Texans, believes it has found the remains of Noah's Ark, but it's not where most think.
The group made the discovery in Iran. That may come as a surprise, because Christians have always believed Noah's Ark was in Mount Ararat, in eastern Turkey.
Faith and curiosity drove Dallas businessman Bonnema on a spiritual and historic journey. He says more than a thousand people have searched for Noah's Ark over the past century.
“If we can find some evidence that Noah's Ark really existed, I thought that could cause thousands and tens of thousands of people to say, ‘maybe the rest of the bible is true, too.’” Bonnema said. He was joined by fellow Dallas businessman Boone Powell, and more than a dozen others. “We had archaeologists, we had geologists, scientists, biblical historians, we had mountain climbers,” Bonnema said. More than 13,000 feet above sea level, after a seven hour hike, their pilgrimage concluded with a 400-foot long object.
Wow. I wonder if anyone on that crack scientific team can maybe run a radiodate or do some geology or stratigraphy on the find?
So, 13,000 feet above sea level. Someone should probably check my math here, it's early and I only have a crappy calculator--this issue isn't important enough for me to dig out a decent one--but I think that works out to about two-billion cubic kilometers of water. That's on top of what's in the ocean already. I believe the oceans hold the vast majority of water on earth somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 BCKm?
I'd heard that that kind of partial water vapor pressure was impossible to survive in, that it would turn the earth into a steamy version of Venus. But I tried to work out the rough temperature and pressure it would take to hold that mass of water as a vapor anyway, assuming it rained out beforehand and then evaporated after the "Flood." The answer kept coming out with these impossible numbers. So I scaled it down to a single kilometer of additional depth, then a hundred meters, then ten meters. I couldn't get any of them to remain in phase. My thermo is rusty to say the least but .... that much liquid water could never transfer back and forth from our atmosphere. Not even close. The water rains out well before that much can be carried or the earth's atmosphere becomes a supersaturated fluid at a temperature and pressure well past the critical point of liquid and vapor phase for water.
The least of Noah's problems would be flooding, he'd have been pressure poached. An ark wouldn't do you much good, you'd need a space ship.
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A lot of you people on here
A lot of you people on here are pretty screwed up. You spend a lot of time digging up and creating arguments against God and against anything about him. The real problem is that each and every person on this earth KNOWS that there is a God. Take a break from your self righteous crap and name calling, and for goodness sake, stop saying bullshit over and over again. Take a look deep inside yourself - the part that you want no one else to see. I am guessing you are scared shitless that you are wrong, and have no where else to turn but to your own intelligence. Good luck with that.
In case you didn't know, Christians can't be bullied. How many have died for their faith? Unless I miss my guess, not a large number of you would die for your athiest beliefs. If I point a gun to your head in a dark alley, and the only way to save your life is to claim God lives, guess what you're gonna do? If you want proof of the power and work of God, look at the work and results of his followers. In the scheme of the world, 2000 years is not a long time. However, in that time, the power of JESUS CHRIST and his love (for everyone who logs onto this site) has changed the world. Many of the social conventions and freedoms you love so much were brought about through Christians. If you really want all of us Christians to shut up and go away with our bullshit, then get ready for a world of complete anarchy. Unfortunately, we are a resilient group, and we have survived persecution this long. Rest assured we will still be kicking long after atheistic propaganda has been replaced by some other hairbrained belief system which I am all too sure you will no doubt buy hook, line, and sinker.
By the way, I am not angry, I just don't agree with you. But I will pray for you because the same Jesus who died for me died for you and loves you. Roll you eyes and get annoyed, but the gospel can't be received unless the gospel is preached. I am fully aware that my comments will not change your mind. Only the saving power of the cross can do that. If it doesn't sink in now, I hope that at some point before you all die, it does.
Where do i start.
First off it doesn't take any work what so ever to prove tha Bible wrong. Modern science is everywhere, not to mention common sense. Not listening to reason doesnt mean that you have faith. Don't say everyone "Knowns". I have a Question for you. Does talking with absolute conviction make you feel special? I bet it does. You call me scared shitless, you didn't even enter your name. Way to stand by your message tiger. I'm sure god is very proud of you.
Your intelagence level is at par with my cat's, whom by the way is stareing with a blank expression at the screan, as if it were some figure you might call god.
I'm sorry but to save ones life would be kind of smart in that situation. I bet you I could get you to denounce god, for instance do you have a wife? Mabey some kids? This anarchy thing you brought up is grade A bullshit! Just because I don't believe in an illogic entity you call god doesnt mean I we don't share the same morals. Plus anarchy as its defined is impossible. As long as two people unite under a common goal there will be no anarchy.
This is where you pissed me off, I have never been told what to think. So this propaganda you talk about means nothing. Do you talk before thinking or just love empty words? How old were you before you started going to church. I've seen them pretty young. Can we say brainwashed. You know that the best part of believe is the lie, and that we were made in gods image human glorification isn't as easy to by into as free thought. Is it?
You are a pathetic excuse for a person and I do hope that you never reproduce.
P.S. Don't pray for me, instead open your eyes.
Wow. Creepy.
You know, you could have said, "what if you were stranded on a desert island," or "what if you were in a lifeboat surrounded by sharks," or even the tried-and-true "what if you were in a foxhole."
But did you? No. You had to say:
So, the best hypothetical situation you can dream up involves you shooting atheists in the head in a dark alley.
Do you realize how fucking insane that sounds?
Now, on to your arguments. They break down into three of the most basic, surrounded by windy blustering by you. The first is your basic "atheists don't really exist" argument. The second is the argument that without Christianity, morality would not exist. And the third is just achoolboy threat. I will address then in order:
Remarkable
So what you're saying is that you know that we know that God and Jesus are real...we're just hiding it from ourselves. Let me be very clear here. I would die for my beliefs...and I'm fairly certain that the other folks here would fight and die for their beliefs with me.
As for your dark alley scenario, hell yes I'd say I believed in your sky fairy to get you to not shoot me. But I still wouldn't believe in him. I'd say it to get your crazy ass away from me...and then when I had the opportunity I'd have your butt arrested for assault with a deadly weapon.
Jesus christ hasn't changed the world. The crazy people who believe in him have...The crazy folks who believe in Allah have also changed the world...and in both cases we're all poorer for it.
heaven
Instaed of finding Noah's Ark, you should be putting a lot of thought into what kind of job you will do in heaven and how to apply for it. Are Angels the forman, without bodies will we need Air Cond. Everlasting life may not be to your liking (being a lapdog for God) Radical Muslims have it easy, all they have to do is satisfy 72 virgins.
Wow
The attitudes I see represented here are typical with the types of attitudes that the Bible predicted the world would take. Just like in Jesus' day, people refused to believe the evidence that was right in front of them, the evidence that exactly matches the historical record of the Bible. I do hope that those of you who insult and doubt and question are absolutely right in your selfish quest to disprove Christianity. Consider this: If I am wrong about my faith, what difference does it make? I will surely go to heaven for being a good person then, even if Jesus is not the King. BUT if YOU are wrong, there is hell to pay, and you will pay dearly. Consider your judgments before your make them. Consider the Bible that says that God's thoughts are not our thoughts and his ways not our ways. Duh! He is telling us that he uses methods and ways that are beyond our comprehension. You think he is concerned about atmospheric pressure and how much rain the earth can actually rain? Give me a break. God is God, but I fear, unfortunately, that when the time comes, you will be forced to bow your knee, and wish you had done it sooner.
In such a hurry ...
Perhaps before you and others begin to claim this discovery as proof of the Ark, proof of Noah, proof of the "Great Flood", proof of 2 by 2, proof of your Bible, proof of your "god", and proof of the divinity of your "Jesus Christ", perhaps you ought to wait for some authoritative study, analysis and documentation of the find. Jumping to conclusions is far more common among the "faithful" than among those they wish to denigrate for actually doing some thinking.
Assuming the object IS a boat and assuming it can somehow be associated with some character in ancient history with similarities to the Noah story, proof of a flood, of a Noah, of a boat still in no way supports the contention that an all-knowing, ever-present, all-powerful exists, that the Bible is ENTIRELY accurate, nor does it support the contention there actually WAS a "Jesus Christ" or that he was "divine" or "transcendent".
Let's just take our time and verify what exactly the "object" IS first before we call the atheist vs. theist argument finished. The journey from verifying a boat on a mountain and the existence of one all-powerful "god" is very, very, very long journey indeed. Don't be in such a hurry ... unless intellectual honesty isn't significant to you.
No, if god is going to
No, if god is going to arbitrarily decide who gets into heaven and who doesn't on ridiculous basis such as the one you suggest, then we really have no clue on what arbitrary basis that might be. Maybe he'll let only nonbelievers in, and therefore you are the one who is screwed, not us. Maybe he will let only gypsies in. Who knows; when the basis is completely based on god's emotional problems, one guess is as good as the other. I think we're on pretty even ground here, bud.
So many typical arguments
You managed to squeeze in a ton of the arguments that we deal with/have dealt with as atheists in one little comment block. Threats, pascal's wager, miracles, and of course evidence!
That's the one I want to jump on. Evidence. Bob telling Sue that he saw an elephant fly shouldn't make Sue believe in flying elephants. Is that a clear enough example? There is NO evidence of or for your god.
No evidence?
How about a boat 13,000 feet up a mountain?
Proof of ...
No, a "boat 13,000 feet up a mountain", if verified, is simply proof of a boat 13,000 feet up a mountain or rather proof of the remains of a boat 13,000 feet up a mountain. Rushing to conclusions from whatever CAN be verified from the discovery site will simply make the hasty look as fools. Proving your "god" will take far more than a patch of rocks in Iran.
It's not a boat
It's a big object of unknown origin that hasn't been dated yet. In other words, it could be anything.
Very well
I didn't say to believe what I believe. I said to be sure that what you believe is correct. What your choice is will ultimately effect you, not me. Arguing with you, who is so set in his ways, will not turn your heart. Only God can do that, and rest assured, you will receive the evidence you seek.
"Belief" and "Evidence"
Well, as long as you wish to address "belief", I BELIEVE there isn't enough verified information as yet about the object to make any conclusions regarding a "boat", what the "boat" was used for if it is a "boat", who built it if it is a "boat", when was it built if it is a "boat", or how and why it wound up where it is if it is a "boat". When the bulk of the evidence existing in the physical object has been collected, analyzed and documented we can make something estimating a final conclusion about the find. If I were the one who discovered it and it was my agenda to use it as verification of the Biblical Noah beyond any doubt, I'd make certain examination of the find is as objective and systematic and documented as was possible. In other words, it's far, far too soon to be making even preliminary conclusions about it and debate for/against the Noah story is grossly premature. The advice to "be sure what you believe is correct" is good advice for ALL, most especially for those jumping to self-fulfilling conclusions. There is a predominance of individuals "set in their ways" across all human cultures and especially dominant in theistic philosophies.
How very convenient!
You cannot show any evidence, but instead cop-out and declare that only those "in the club" can see the evidence.
So, what is an ethical unbeliever to do? On the one hand, we cannot commit to believing in an invisible, un-evidenced magical sky father who knows all and sees all and loves each and every one of us dearly without *something*, for goodness' sake! Any evidence at all! But noooo. All we get are platitudes, anecdotes, and the stomping of the little foot insisting that "Yes it is TOO true!"
"I cannot believe without evidence."
"You cannot have the evidence until you believe."
I call bullshit, Ted.
As for your weak version of Pascal's wager, please allow me to turn it on it's ear and throw it back at you. How would you respond to it? :
See, here's the problem with Pascal's wager. What if you bet on the wrong god? What if you bet on Jesus, and Zeus happens to be the god you should have kow-towed to?
Also, what god would want someone who lies about their belief just to avoid hades or hell? Who thinks they can "rig the system"?
Again, I call bullshit.
Ah. The old "God works in mysterious ways" crap-ola. This is what is called the "Argument From Personal Incredulity". It is also used a lot by creationists and ID apologists. It literally means, "I don't know how it could have have happened, so God did it."
It's an argument that a child would use. It too is bullshit.
I thought your god "worked in mysterious ways" and that he "uses methods and ways that are beyond our comprehension"? C'mon, Ted. Which is is? You can't have it both ways. How can you claim to know that your god "doesn't care" about atmospheric pressure and the amount of rainfall, then also simultaneously make the claim that your god is also unknowable and mysterious?
Bull. Shit.
If I told my wife that I loved her dearly, and unconditionally (which I do by the way) - that would be a good thing. My wife loves that, and I do too. We enjoy a wonderful, loving, trusting, unconditional relationship that enriches us both immeasurably.
But what if then I also told her that if she ever left me that I would hunt her down, capture her, torture her for weeks in the basement, and eventually kill her. But that I would only do it out of love. And that it was her own fault for leaving me. I mean, after all, I warned her, didn't I?
Give ME a break, Ted. I'd be locked up as a fucking lunatic in no time at all, and rightfully so.
Your god does not exist, Ted. Threatening us with fairy-tale magic-men does not scare us, and cause us to look at you a little funny. Pascal's wager is NOT something that you and your super-intelligent brain just made up. It's been around for many. many years - and has been debunked almost as long as that.
Give up on the apologist's shtick, Ted. It's been done to death around here, and it always sounds like the same old broken record. You want our attention? Try something that we haven't dealt with a thousand times before.
Noah's Ark
I do not need anyone to find Noah's Ark or anything else to know the Bible is true. I accept it by Faith and I know it is true. I have little faith in anything else.
Well, ok then.
That's nice, dear. Run along and play now.
Where'd he put 'em all?
My brainwashing didn't take when I was a kid but wasn't Noah meant to have saved two of every creature on earth? They all fit in a 400 foot long boat? That IS a miracle! You couldn't even get two of every insect in a boat that size let alone 2 of every mammal and reptile. Of course they wouldn't need food and water with all of the miracles flying around. Neat story, just finding a boat will make me believe every bit of it.
Oh ye of little faith
You've obviously never seen "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids."
"Jesus, I Shrunk Two Each of Kind!"
God is stronger than Hollywood!
(Even though Gibson's movie was more moving than any dry Biblical story).
Or whatever.
Hooray!
Thank you CBS! By God, this is NEWS!!
I love the quote: “If we can find some evidence that Noah's Ark really existed, I thought that could cause thousands and tens of thousands of people to say, ‘maybe the rest of the bible is true, too.’”
Cower, foolish mortal physicists and astronomers! Flee, vain biologists and geologists! Your entire world shall be overturned, and you shall burn in the hell of knowing that you were WRONG all along!! For one small expedition to the Holy Land has proven true every word of the Holy Bible!!
"Stay tuned. Next up, we'll have pictures of a VERY pregnant Britney Spears, and moms, we'll learn why taking the kids to the park without plenty of sunscreen could be a REALLY bad idea."
(More peanuts for the monkeys!)
I believe
There are gods, hundreds, even thousands of them. They are infallible and all-knowing. You are right. We should put our faith in them. Hail the calculations and explanations of physicists, astronomers, biologists, and geologists. I wonder if people in the 1600's were as vain. Perhaps they believed they had the answers to everything, too. I wonder if anything we know now would seem impossible, or improbable to them. Well, we've come a long way since then. It helps that we have tools that give us "observable" evidence of the birth of the universe, evidence that reveals how little we really do know!
There is evidence of God. Likely, none of you will find it, since you are seeking to explain it away. You are your god, omnipotent and all-powerful. There is no place for the true God in your lives. I have seen the error of my ways. I repent and bow to you.
By the way, AIG has a plausable flood hypothesis on their site. Not that you care to read it.
Wonderful...
I think this is an entirely new argument. If we, Atheists (and scientists, since naturally they are all atheists), do not believe in YOUR god, then we must think we are god. Makes sense.
I have seen the error of my ways. I repent and bow to you.
About time. Next meeting is wednesday night, the topic will be, "Rules of safety while grinding puppies" BYOP!
solution
You forget the fundie's secret weapon--miracles!
As they teach in
Pirate Bible School,
Noah was a pirate who sailed around the sea,
Wi' half a dozen wenches and a big menagerie.
He failed the first season when it rained for forty days,
For in that sort o' weather, privateering never pays.
solution
Mark is right. These kinds of articles, claiming that the flood couldn't have happened because the math or the physics wouldn't allow it don't lead anywhere because the entirety of the Christian religion is based upon the idea that God can do anything. So, God created the water to flood the earth, and then God took it all away again. It's as logical a solution as anything else according to the religious world view.
Redefining what you don't like ...
Essentially, you're right. When logic puts your beliefs in jeopardy, dispense with logic and construct reasoning that serves your purposes. Of course, reasonable, rational arguments DO work for those who genuinely want to know the truth of a thing. Miracles work only for those who are too lazy to think or, if not lazy, just simply openly hostile to that which lies outside of one's comfortable box.