The Campaign to Free Thought

I don't think you have to tell kids that their parents aren't all knowing, they usaully figure that out quite fast. Adults have learned a lot and you can save a lot of time and energy if you listen to them (not take what they say for granted but give it thought, they probably learned it the hard way).

I'm sure its not easy to read all the way through my comments.

As you say, having the opportunity to see that there are many viewpoints and trying to understand them is valuable but I don't think we aught to force it down people's throats. Your goal of providing a space for people to encounter new ideas, in my mind, is appropriate. Let people come to you. We should generally mind our own business about how people raise their kids unless they are damaging them with violence or lack of care. We generally get to an age when we run contra what our parents have taught us. This is the very annoying teenaged years.

I find it interesting that a sort of realigning of tribal allegiance characterizes this age. Some become Goths, others Hip-hoppers, others computer-geeks, some headbangers and yet others align to hippidom. These tribes have their values, they have their outward style and they have their rituals of sorts. This all provides kids with a new sense of belonging. This belonging is reinforced by an ethos that trivializes the condition one is often abandoning (boredom). Meanwhile, if you happen to be born into a community that infuses people with a strong sense of belonging (i.e. orthodox communities or a very interconnected family) then the kids are far less likely to abandon their group.

The fundamental issue I experienced that lead to my exploring "foreign" thoughts was a sense that my group was hypocritical. It pretended to provide a sense of belonging when in fact it was not committed to me at all and condescending on top of it. But, this is because I grew up in a conservative Jewish environment and this group tends to produce bar-mitzvah factories and trendy forms of Judaism. While I cannot agree with Orthodox Jewish beliefs I can see why people remain committed to them, as the community is very committed to the individual as well. I suspect we will find this to be true of a very many people's experiences that led to their choosing some of the other pop-tribes that our culture provides us as alternatives.

I want to add one more thing to your comment. While introducing kids to the concept that they can think for themselves is a fine one, it is my experience that people tend not to see the value in this process. It requires discipline of mind and strength of character. Abandoning old ideas require new ideas and people tend not to think there are that many ideas out there. These ideas also tend to alienate us from those we have grown up loving. To truly achieve a creative idea, one that stands a viable chance at surviving outside our own head, the once viable, old ideas it might replace have to have become corrupted with time. Ideas too have a life cycle. Look around you today and see how much appears to be foolish in design (petroleum economy) and yet survives long past the time when we all know it should die. Even conservative bloggers are calling for an Apollo style project to find alternative energy sources (which I, btw, think is a great idea. Much better then funding a ton of wars all over the world that is the alternative end to our petroleum addiction. Sorry, Iran, you don't matter... Venezuela... you don't matter either. Oh, China... you want some of this energy?.. lets talk some more about intellectual property rights. Much better to solve problems with energy then war, don't you think?). Like all things of value, open minds are rare.

Many Miles, Many Shoes
BoNo

Kafka once wrote to his father, "The arrow fits perfectly into the wound"

You might want to keep that in mind when you consider how and why people choose their faiths or lack there of. I know many people who were raised in a religion and went away from it. They either chose another religion or became atheists. Those that kept to their religions are fulfilling a need that could well be genetically driven. Just because you manage without it how can you judge that godlessness would suit everyone? You might be a decent person without god while others need to think someone is watching. Your idea sounds very much like a form of forced apostasy and instead of converting those from one faith to another you are a missionary for the conversion into godlessness. The Soviets tried this in their day and, to my mind, the sort of enforcement this would require upon your fellow Americans would be intensely cruel with little proof of its necessity. While we are at it why don't we keep kids from seeing their parents drink wine. People won't drink alchohol, and we all know how bad that is, if they aren't programmed to do so by watching their parents. We all know that alchoholism is learned. Even if you only drink socially its just not good for you and you shouldn't have been exposed to it as a child. I'm thinking of starting a movement to make it illegal for kids to watch TV. TV is prooven to be bad for you and considering that if you didn't grow up with TV you would be unlikely to watch it as an adult I think people should have to wait until they can decide for themselves if they want to watch TV. This is fun Seth... I'm thinking maybe we can make baseball an adults only entertainment. You only enjoy it if you get the nuances of it. Áou won't really try to understand the nuances unless your parents took you to the game as a kid and once you like baseball you generally keep liking it. Thanks for providing me with a new blog subject. Things we think are crap so, in an effort to program all of society to only like what we like, we not let their kids get involved in them until they are too old to be interested on their own.

On your site you used the word brainwash incorrectly. In order to wash a brain it would have had to be made dirty first. Brainwashing is the act of deprogramming people of what they thought they knew and reprogramming their newly cleaned mind with something new. You can't erase a blank disc. The programming one can observe in an infant is minimal and could not be washed from them without killing them. They are programmed to eat, sleep, breath, defecate and as they get older to observe and mimic. They are designed to seek approval and they express their genetic make-up (they smile like a great-grandparent they never met or stand in a posture eerily like a cousin they never knew). You used the word brainwashing when what you meant to say was teaching. Suggesting that parents not be allowed to display religiosity to their kids is not far from stealing the right of parents to teach their kids at all. A great many people learn right from wrong from their religion. They literally judge behavior by things like, what would Jesus do or what does the Talmud say about this situation. In spite of this, the majority of those who use these methods tend to make some very good decisions as regards to interpersonal relationships. If people don't have myths, legends, heros and judicial texts by which to choose actions what do you suggest they use as examples for proper behavior? Perhaps Sarte, maybe Nietzsche or do you prefer Sade. We could also look to Star Wars or the Cosby Show for our moral guidence. People are a product of their environment. If you denude their environment of guiding principles you had better figure on better principles to plant in their place.

You might know I feel that Islam may doom all that is good in our culture. Yet, I must admit, even though I think Islam a bunch of myths, lies and hate, the Muslims should have the right to practice their religion. I only insist that they not push their religion down my throat. I refuse to live under Sharia and insist that they not inflict Muslim justice on the citizens of non-Muslim countries. I really don’t care what they do to each other in their country. Let them do clitorectomies to their daughters or sew their little girls' vaginas up (Yes Alon, I know these are a small minority of Muslims who do this and they are mostly fringe African Muslims. I dont intend for this to be a generalization of Muslim practices). I only insist they not force me and my people to participate in the same butchery they practice. When they live in our countries there are limits to the justice they may practice. If they want to follow all their laws (the cutting off of hands, the beheadings, the raping of immodest women. BTW, these are not fringe practices. These are common judiciary executions occuring in Islamic Republics. The fact that police around the Western World are now finding it more and more difficult to patrol Muslim neighborhoods and have been reporting discoveries of severed hands in areas around these communities is becoming common) let them go back to their country. I would think that if Jews went back to stoning those who break the Sabbath this would be a big problem as well.

The question I ask is, under your system how would you explain to a Muslim that his father is praying five times a day and although he is obligated to the same practice you may not do it because Big Seth is watching? Or, how do you stop Jews who keep kosher, keep the Sabbath and pray three times a day from bringing their children in contact with these practices? You do realize that Jews are obligated to circumcise their sons at eight days old and Muslims do so at age thirteen. While the infant never has the opportunity to protest this I have to say, for myself, as a non-believing Jew, I am proud to have been circumcised as my father was before me and my grandfathers before that all the way back for thousands of years. When the Passover meal is shared with a whole family are you to rent a room in a hotel and hire a baby-sitter for the kids until they reach the age of consent. Would I not be allowed to bring my son to family gatherings because most of them are centered around traditional Jewish holidays? What do I do with my infant son while his mother and I are eating apples, honey, fish, lamb and all the other traditional foods of the New Year holiday? I am not a god fearing man. I do like my Jewish traditions and I will share them with my children. I am very excited and humbled by the honor I will have in a few weeks of celebrating my infant son's first Rosh Hashana. I don't do it for god. I do it because I love my family and I love our people. I can't quite understand why you would want to take that pleasure away from me.

There is no way a practicing Jew or Muslim could live as his religion dictates and not bring his or her children into contact with these beliefs. It just couldn't happen. I am afraid to hear how you might suggest implementing your plan with that in mind.

Many Miles, Many Shoes,
BoNo