Observations and inanities by a second-shift assistant supervisor in the Puppy-Grinding division of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy® (our motto: "Sure it's cruel, but think of the jobs!"), your host, Brent Rasmussen.
Faith - but not in a god
Faith is not a tricky word. It's definition is as follows according to Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
- on faith : without question
Normally people of reason regard the word faith with distrust and disdain, and for good reason. The kind of faith that we/they have no truck with is the faith in the supernatural. Belief in anything without reason is almost criminal to someone who thinks rationally. In other words 1a and b, 2(b2), and 3 (minus religious beliefs) all fall within a realm that does not require the supernatural. It's 2a(1,2) and b(1) which are anathema to the rational mind.
I have faith in my wife. I have faith in the promise of mankind as a whole. I have faith that the scientific method works. I have faith in scientists that have more knowledge than me to discover how things work. I have faith (tempered) in the peer review process. None of these things require belief in things that have nothing to back them up.
So yes, I have faith...I freely admit it. But it changes nothing about my stance as an atheist.
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people
I agree with it.
I don't have faith...
...but I do have trust. Some of it is well justified, some of approaches hope.
But faith? It requires a positive assertion about the unknown. I trust that that's wankery.
Faith
The Third Awakening and Christian America movement has me worried too. But I get a little nervous when I read this kind of snide dismissal of anyone who has a belief in something other than the rational and measurable. (I assume you all think that Hindus and Buddhists are equally ignorant, superstitious and deserving of ridicule.) It sounds too much like the other side! Why are atheists so bothered by religious faith? You work out what constitutes for you an ethical life and I will do the same for myself.
Too often bloggers sound as if they are done growing and have nothing left to learn -- on any subject, not just faith. Based on my personal experience, I am sure that we can learn from sources other than the sensory, and I'm not sure of much more than that. So long as I don't try to make you think the way I do, I deserve more respect.
An answer
The 2nd sentence of this answers the first. We have figured out what constitutes an ethical life for ourselves. So have most of the religious. But while once we have made our determination, we go our merry way, the faithful are finding ways to force their moral determination on the rest of us.
Extra-Sensory Sources
What exactly are "sources other than the sensory"? Can you elaborate on that a bit please?
Thank you.
"Other than sensory"
This is very personal and difficult to talk about in the sense that it is hard to talk in rational terms about something that is not experienced in rational terms. It is not something I hear, see (read), smell, taste or touch. But sometimes after I meditate, which to me is listening quietly with an "inner ear," I am different. I know some of you will dismiss it as some sort of subconscious dance I am doing with myself. Could be. I've done that before but this doesn't feel like that.
Inner Ears
Thank you for your reply. It was refreshingly honest, and I really respect that.
I too hear voices with my "inner ear", but I understand that they are merely anthropomorphisized renderings of my own thoughts - that "subconcious dance" that you speak of. (Great term, BTW. I may steal it and use it in the future!)
I am interested in why you would attribute your inner dialog to anything else? Why add an unnecessary entity?
You have already admitted that sometimes you talk to yourself (like we ALL do) and that you realize that this is what is happening.
What I don't get is why you sometimes attribute your voices to your own brain, and sometimes to a god-thing?
Feelings? "I feel like that was god today, but not yesterday. Yesterday was only me." Is that what happens?
In any case, thanks again for the reply. :)
ESP, baby!
By definition, Anonymous believes in ESP: extra-sensory perception.
One of my favorite quotes:
A humanistic rabbi, Sherwin Wine, once said:
"We believe in the power of man to solve his own problems and determine his own destiny, and the other side doesn't. They're the non-believers."
- No More Mr. Nice Guy!
Nicely Said
This one gives a lot of newly atheistic folks trouble. You've explained nicely what it's taken me and lots o' others some troubled conversations to figure out.
Thanks Rick.
a personally evolving organism
Kinds of faith
When we talk about faith there really are just two kinds. One is evidence based. The other exists not only without evidence but often in the face of contravening evidence. I suggest the quote above refers to the first kind.
For instance if I tell you I have faith in a good friend its understood that my friend has been there for me often at personal sacrifice to himself. Should reliable information come to me that my friend was lying to me and manipulating me to selfish ends I think my faith in him would cease.
I have faith that tomorrow will dawn a new day. But if numerous independent observers reported that a black hole would consume the sum before dawn in my timezone then I would no longer have that faith.
This kind of faith starts with evidence and extrapolates. But a second property of this faith is that it never forgets that extrapolation. For instance if circumstances require that you put your confidence or faith in someone you hardly know then you would remain vigilant for signs that faith isn't justified.
Faith usually referred to in a religious context is of the hysterical desperate clinging to a belief regardless of what reality throws up as contrary evidence.
Whenever my wife brings up the Faith issue
I say essentially what you've written. I have faith in humanity, and people making the right choices, that my kids are bright etc...
Great comment!
Those who ask the most questions, have the most answers. - ARB (1991)