atheism

I am so pleased to find out red bird O'Connor has declared his respect for agnostics and atheists.

The Archbishop of Westminster has urged Christians to treat atheists and agnostics with "deep esteem".

Of course he F'd it up by then unleashing the BS propaganda.....

"I want to encourage people of faith to regard those without faith with deep esteem because the hidden God is active in their lives as well as in the lives of those who believe."

Um....I'm not sure what to say to this....how about "Shut the F up old man"

It's unfortunate there isn't a hell for the likes of red bird O'Connor and pope Ratz. So how big does a religion have to be to lose cult status?

Full Story http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7390941.stm

toothpastefordinner.com

If only it were true.

It does free up quite a lot of time on Sunday or Saturday or Friday night for you, so atheist weekends are longer.

Jeff Mullin is a "Senior Writer" for the Enid, Oklahoma News & Eagle newspaper. A few years ago he wrote an article "poking fun" at atheists for having the unmitigated gall to suggest that traditional god-belief was exactly the same as belief in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (blessed be Her unseen curly mane.) He subsequently received a letter from an atheist who asked him what gave him the right to ridicule atheists for their lack of belief?

Nothing, apparently. He just likes to ridicule atheists. So, nice Christian guy that he is, he decided to do it again. This time in a column dripping with insincere pity for the poor, deluded atheists.

How very thoughtful of him.

More below the fold...

Following Jim's lead.

I wasted this morning playing World of Warcraft. I was leveling my Night Elf Warrior alt and enjoying the new quests they added to Dustwallow Marsh a few patches ago. (I've been meaning to level an alt just so I could defeat Tethyr. That guy scared me so bad the first time I saw him when I was running my main through Theramore.) I had misinterpreted a quest and swam to the wrong shipwreck in Tidefury Cove. I didn't find my quest objective, but I did find something interesting nonetheless.

I was poking around one of my regular gun-board haunts, and saw a thread about a news report on the BBC about how us gun-crazed Americans are actually more tranquil and civil than might be expected - moreso than British society. Since, as I've noted here recently, I enjoy the UK, I thought I'd check it out.

The discussion was about what I expected, right up until someone started spouting . . . well, here's what the guy said:

First they gave up their guns, then they gave up their God. No Jesus, no peace, know Jesus, know peace.

This post was prompted by the entry That Old Chestnut over at the SGU blog. I started typing a comment for the blog post, but it quickly expanded beyond the scope of just a comment.

I've given the atheism versus agnosticism issue a great deal of thought recently. I think I've hit upon several different problems that I believe cause this confusion: different definitions, different questions, real world applicability, social pressure and pronunciation (didn't expect that one, did you?).

We have all asked ourselves and each other the same questions lately. Why do religious folks hate atheists? Why do they assert that an atheist is a "militant fundamentalist" when that atheist has merely written a book? Or talked about their lack of religious belief, or their skepticism towards all things supernatural?

After all, we generally don't call a religious person a "militant fundamentalist" unless they are strapping bombs to their chests, flying planes into buildings, stabbing their child for being possessed by a demon, or getting all lathered up at the televised pulpit and calling for a theocracy in America and advocating violence towards the heathen sekoolar hewmanist librul college perfesser elitist homasexshul-loving intelleckshuls.

I think it is the fear of death. In other words, I think it is evolution in action - the survival instinct. Except that it is operating without a guiding intelligence and awareness - just instinct. The blind groping for meaning and structure - any structure. Like the structure that a religion provides.

Well, rational thinking provides a structure too - and it is much closer to reality than religion.

I can only speak for myself, but I am not afraid of death at all. I came to grips with my own mortality years ago. My legacy will survive genetically in my five children and grandchild(ren), and hopefully in the memories of my family and friends. For a while at least. I hold no illusions regarding my importance in the human society comprised of the billions of people on our planet.

But that's OK with me. I will not know any different in any case. I will be dead. No big whoop. Happens to everyone, eventually. Oh, I am attempting to extend my life, because believe it or not, the survival instinct is strong in me too. I look both ways before crossing the street, drive defensively, and I have finally quit smoking (thanks modern pharmacological science!)

But the death thing really doesn't bother me all that much. I mean, why get worked up about it? There is really nothing you can do to prevent it in the end. It'll happen, regardless, so why worry about it? Try and live as long as you can, sure, but don't kid yourself about finding an "out" for the final curtain call. It doesn't exist yet. (The transhumanists may think we are going to eliminate death one day scientifically, but I am not holding my breath for that breakthrough either. If it comes, it comes. Fantastic! If not, well, at least I wasn't holding my breath!)

Most atheists I know hold attitudes towards death similar to my own. I wonder if this is the reason why theists seem to hate the fact that we even exist?

They have created these towering fantasy edifices about lives after their physical deaths. These fairy tales are populated by magical god-men, human non-physical ghosts, and winged supernatural angels and cherubs. There are magic cities with streets paved in gold, and an eternal, glowing, happy-land existence that is contingent on on just shutting your rational brain down and believing it all without any evidence whatsoever, on the word of your local shaman.

Yeesh.

I think that in a way they sense that we have stumbled into the cold, hard light of the truth of the matter. And it irks them at a level that demands that we be shunned as "the other". Hated, feared (much like their invisible angry deity) for having the unmitigated gall to doubt their fantasies, and to show them to be absolutely false in some cases.

Well, that's what I think, anyway. :) What is your take on it? Do you fear death?

Illinois state Rep. Monique Davis has apologized to Rob Sherman, who has graciously accepted her apology, for attempting to deny him his civil rights in a public hearing that he was invited to testify before last week.

Apparently it's OK to be a bigoted, unconstitutional, theocratic asshole if you're having a bad day.

These stats really don't come as a surprise to me.

One of our favorite guys, Rob Sherman, testified before the Illinois House State Government Administration Committee on Wednesday related to Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposed $1 million grant intended for Pilgrim Baptist Church, and was blindsided by wackjob theocrat Rep. Monique Davis who seems to think that atheists don't have any right to exist, and that we are "dangerous to children".

[link] Davis: I don’t know what you have against God, but some of us don’t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it’s really a tragedy -- it’s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

I don’t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

I’m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.… What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it’s dangerous--

Sherman: What’s dangerous, ma’am?

Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I’m sure that if this matter does go to court---

Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

You can listen to the whole sordid thing here.

(Tip of the ballcap to Twitter and Hemant!)

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- It looked harmless enough, but the words on a billboard unnerved so many people that a popular restaurant nearby actually lost business. The billboard was on Colonial Drive near Old Cheney Highway.

Words? What words were so offensive? These:

ALL RELIGIONS ARE FAIRY TALES

Complete with a cartoon 'fairy godmother' type of figure. And like little kids everywhere, the poor believers got upset:

At first glance, the sign looked like a children's cartoon, but the message next to the fairy princess stirred emotions.

"When you condemn all religions and say they are a fairytale, that is wrong," said Rich Stormes, a nearby business owner.

Yeah, Rich, we should only make fun of *other people's* religion, not yours, right?

Jim Downey

(Hat tip, ML!)

I find myself conflicted. I have no ready resolution to my problem. As it says in my introduction on the sidebar, I'm a liberal libertarian with conservative leanings. What that really means is that I'm a registered Independant who doesn't concur with the party platform of the Republicans and Democrats. I am, with caveats, an Objectivist. I may address the hows and whys of those tenents at another time. I promised my conundrum though, and here it is.

These parents allowed their child to die because of their religious beliefs. They allowed a sentient being, a person with their whole life ahead of them, to perish because they believed that if their daughter was worthy, or their prayers fervent enough, she'd be healed by their magic sky fairy. They have murdered their daughter. I use that term, murder, intentionally. They have willfully denied their daughter medical care and because of that she is no more. This is especially tragic to me given that I'm an atheist. Without an afterlife to "live" for, or to transit to post-death, this result, death, is the worst outcome possible in my view. The parents failure to obtain proper medical care for a perfectly treatable condition is a travesty of both life and liberty.

The "State" is not necessary for many things. We are an over-regulated people in America. We have laws governing many of our behaviours. Of these laws, I believe most to be at best unnecessary, at worst intrusive. My conundrum lies in the straight fact that I'd like what these parents have done to be illegal. I WANT state intervention because I can't think of another way to handle such a case. This couple's daughter should be alive today. I'm not feeling my libertarian edge right at this moment and I'd like it back. Help?

It's a serious question. Many of us who are non-believers nonetheless are in family or other situations where some kind of participation or observation of this most important of Christian holidays.

Many times, even after I had left my Catholic faith far behind, I would attend Easter sunrise services with friends, or spend the day with family. My maternal grandmother always put out a big spread of food, and throughout the day the family would come by and try to avoid eating it (she was an OK cook, but her safe-food-handling skills were notoriously bad, and almost always someone in the family would get hit with a mild case of food poisoning).

Lots of atheists will still decorate eggs, or give the kids candy for Easter, because it is so much a part of the culture.

For me and my wife, it is just a routine day - since my mother-in-law passed on last month, we no longer need to even pretend to observe the holiday. But this is perhaps the first time in several years when I'm not doing *anything* in connection with the day.

So, what are you doing today?

Jim Downey

Father Raniero Cantalamessa, writing a "Gospel Commentary for Palm Sunday" in Zenit, the Catholic news service from Rome, Italy, has redefined atheism so that it means, well, theism.

How incredibly convenient!

[link] Jesus on the cross has become an atheist, one without God. There are two forms of atheism: the active or voluntary atheism of those who reject God, and the passive or suffered atheism of those who are rejected (or feel rejected) by God. In both forms there are those who are "without God." The former is an atheism of fault, and the latter is an atheism of suffering and expiation. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, about whom there was much discussion when her personal writings were published, belongs to this latter category.

On the cross Jesus expiated in anticipation all the atheism that exists in the world, not only that of declared atheists, but also that of practical atheists, the atheism of those who live "as if God did not exist," relegating him to the last place in their life. It is "our" atheism, because, in this sense, we are all atheists -- some more, some less -- those who do not care about God. God too is one of the "marginalized" today; he has been pushed to the margins of the lives of the majority of men.

So, as you can see, all atheists really do know that God exists, but they either choose to "reject" Him, or they are going through so much suffering that they lose sight of Him. Mother Theresa's atheism is a good thing, you see? It means that God was heaping on extra punishments and torment for no reason - because she was so saintly and good. Obviously she needed to be tortured her entire life. And this is proof that He exists! Hallelujah!

And God Himself is "marginalized"! The horror! The poor, put-upon, all-powerful Universal Creator of everything is sad because every time He punishes one of his most faithful creatures over the course of years, then refuses to provide any evidence that He actually exists in any real sense, they stop believing in Him. It makes me weep, really.

That means that all of us atheists who make the simple claim that god-belief of any kind is absent within us are delusional liars.

I see.

Thank you Father, for your enlightened Palm Sunday commentary in which you attempt to marginalize and demonize 12 to 15% of the world's population. But that seems to be one of the things the Catholic church does best. Create the illusion that a group of fellow human beings are somehow sub-human, then use that perception to get the upper hand politically

Great job! Mission accomplished! I am SO looking forward to your God making me suffer. Maybe I can be as big an atheist/theist as Mother Theresa if He keeps me alive long enough, and I get painfully tortured enough!

Yes! Religion is so great! And Catholicism is the best religion ever!

Update: D'oh! The Manka Bros punked me with this one. Nicely done satire!

Dammit. I missed the obvious "white Christian teen rapper" angle when I was looking for my multi-million dollar record deal.

I strongly encourage all you pagan atheists to have a stiff drink before watching this delightfully insane video. (I'm 100% serious here. Have a drink of something before clicking the Play button. Make sure you swallow first.)

And yes, I am well aware that more exposure for this tweener singing/rapping dynamic duo means that they will probably sell more records - and I am perfectly OK with that. More power to 'em. Fleece the sheep for all they can bear, seems to be their father/producer/manager's motto. It's a textbook lesson in exactly how one can indeed worship God and mammon, contrary to what their holy book says.

Enjoy.

(ACPA-london) Excitement is growing in the Northern England town of Huddlesfield following the news that a local man saw an image of the Big-Bang in a piece of toast. Atheist Donald Chapman, 36, told local newspaper, "The Huddlesfield Express" that he was sitting down to eat breakfast when an unusual toast pattern caught his eye.

"I was just about to spread the butter when I noticed a fairly typical small hole in the bread surrounded by a burnt black ring. however the direction and splatter patterns of the crumbs as well as the changing shades emanating outwards from this black hole were very clearly similar to the chaotic-dynamic non-linear patterns that one would expect following the Big-Bang". "It's the beginning of the world" he added excitedly.

Ever since news of the discovery made national headlines, local hoteliers have been overwhelmed by an influx of atheists from all over the country who have flocked to Huddlesfield to catch a glimpse of the scientific relic. "I have always been an Atheist and to see my life choices validated on a piece of toast is truly astounding" said one guest at the Huddlesfield Arms hotel.

OK, one more for John Shore, the folksy, friendly Christian apologist. He doesn't seem to be getting it.

John wrote a post on his blog called "Inquiring Atheists Want to Know: What, Exactly, Was the Sacrifice Jesus Made?. Atheists responded in the comment section. One in particular, "Instrumann", responded quite forcefully, with the correct argument; that is, that atheists are NOT "angry at God". Rather, we do not believe that God exists. So, how can we be angry at an imaginary magical being? What we are angry at is the fact that believers in this magical man in the sky influence the laws that are passed in our society, and sometimes insist that everyone kowtow to their own particular flavor of religious fairy tale.

[Instrumann] I don’t hate god. That’s a ridiculous statement. I don’t believe in any god so how could I hate one? I hate the fact that so many people invest so much of their time and energy believing fairytales and living their lives according to the rules of the fairytales.

I have to share my world with lunatics, simpletons, delusional people and people who are just too lazy to bother questioning what’s been force fed to them since they were kids. I do hate that fact.

John Shore, responding to Instrumann's comment, had this to say:

[John Shore] The harshness of your proclamation does compromise you being taken seriously. It’s too mean. Once you show people such bilious disrespect, you kind of forfeit your own right to be respected. Which is kind of a shame, because (as you know) there is much reasonableness to all you’ve said.

John, he was not showing anyone "bilious disrespect". He wasn't respecting your wacky religious beliefs, and he explained exactly why he does not respect them.

Listen very carefully, John. He is certainly disrespecting your magical thinking, but he is not disrespecting you.

I am the same way. I am kind to people, and I respect them as human beings. But my respect for them as people does not automatically spill over into respect for any strange, weirdo idea that happens to pop into their heads. For example, one of my dearest friends in the world is a believer is astrology. She is one of the few folks outside my own family that I would quite literally do anything for, up to and including giving my own life for hers if it came down to that. However, I will also tell her that I think she's being an idiot when she starts yacking-on about star signs and "readings".

Do I respect her? Absolutely. Do I respect her belief in astrology? Emphatically NO.

The problem is that religious beliefs in our society have traditionally been given a free pass - essentially having an unspoken immunity from criticism. So, when one of us dirty, nasty atheists says something critical about your beliefs, you seem to consistently misinterpret it as a personal attack.

It's just the way you were raised, John. Just the same way that you were raised to believe in magical sky men.

But we won't sit down and shut up any longer. Your fairy tale has too much influence on my life and on the lives of my family for me to keep quiet about it any more.

THAT is what all the comments are about. We are trying to stem what we see as a massively irrational and dangerous tide coming in that threatens us and our families personally. We are doing it by disagreeing with your ideas.

And you know what? Except for a few isolated lobbying groups, we are mostly doing it with words. Blogs, comments, books, and articles. There are no "militant" atheist groups - unless you stretch the meaning of the word "militant" completely out of shape until it ceases to have any real meaning at all.

Respect, in some situations, is given freely - like the respect that I give to every human being by the simple virtue of them being human.

Ideas have to earn my respect. Yours have not.

Ayesha N. Khan, legal director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the AU have filed a lawsuit against the town of Greece, NY for it's unconstitutional practice of offering explicitly sectarian Christian prayers as an official part of their town meetings.

[link] Khan said that of 44 Greece meeting prayers reviewed by her group, only one was offered by a non-Christian. And, she said, the review showed that the vast majority of prayers delivered before meetings since 2004 were explicitly sectarian.

The U.S. Supreme Court has determined that governmental bodies may open their sessions with prayer, but only if the prayer is nonsectarian and does not reference a particular deity or the language and symbols specific to one religion.

The Americans United lawsuit, which was filed on behalf of Greece residents Linda Stephens and Susan Galloway, seeks to have the court declare that Greece's current practice violates the Constitution and issue an injunction prohibiting sectarian prayer before the board meetings.

The citizen's reactions are what concern me the most:

[link] Please understand that the real issue is getting publicity for people and their anti-Christian agenda. I attend Faith Temple Church in Brighton and this is no different from when they didn't want the new expanded Christian based church expanding in THEIR town. I appreciate that the Jewish and atheiest can come together for something! The funny thing is they're both nonbelievers in Christ. I get that, but when people around you are believers and they are in power please respect YOUR place. When I come to Brighton I understand MY place as a Christian male. You need to realize in Greece we don't accept atheism or Judaism as the guiding faith in our town. We have predominately Christian places of worship throughout the town. Respect it or leave it. I am sick of this crap, we aren't Holland or Londonistan or any other place where Christians are made to feel dirty for their religion, this is America! We were founded by a country of white protestant Christian males, and as such are guided by that. I didn't complain all the time I had to spend in SS class learning about the holocaust ad nauseam. I respect what happened and hope it never happens again, BUT I don't call the ACLU and complain my children have to learn it and I am offended or whatever. Find these women and find out what they're real problem is and lets solve it, but it isn't prayer.

In other words, "Sit down, shut up, and get to the back of the bus while your betters run this town, you filthy, second-class, non-Christian scum." And what's the deal with the scary "find these women and find out what their real problem is" threatening comment? Find them and what? Beat them until they acknowledge that Christians are more human then they are? Find them and terrorize their families? What a despicable thing to say.

This is a depressingly familiar refrain from bigoted Christians in our country who have no clue what the Constitution actually says, and who would seem to be arguing for a Christian theocracy in a "might makes right" or "majority rules" sense.

What they don't understand is the fact that our First Amendment concept of the separation of church and state protects them too. Tyranny of the majority should be a real and valid concern for all Americans, not just the minorities - because one day you too could become a minority.

Kudos to the AU for fighting this very important fight to save our civil liberties from the absolute morons who want to strip them away.

John Shore is a Christian writer and apologist whose folksy-language approach to apologetics, and his focus on talking to unbelievers makes him a very likable guy.

In other words, I can see myself hanging out with and having a beer with John. I like reading his stuff, but I still think he's dead wrong. Heh.

There's some interesting conversations going on over at John's blog about the Christian theological concept of Atonement, and whether or not the Christian God is gaming the system that He Himself created - and why exactly? Fun stuff. Check it out and contribute if you get a chance.

• An Atheist Asks: Why Did Christ Have to Sacrifice Himself to Himself?
• Inquiring Atheists Want to Know: What, Exactly, Was the Sacrifice Jesus Made?

Graham Preston at Online Opinion plays devil's advocate:

[link] Let’s take it as given that Richard Dawkins is correct: God does not, and never has, existed.

With that being so, what necessarily follows about life, the universe and everything?

He then proceeds to barrel wildly into wrong-headed, opinionated oblivion by treating "atheism" and the philosophy "nihilism" as synonyms.

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